My quest to hugeness! (need help, hehe)

**Warrior21** · 10-03-2006, 07:20 PM

Hey guys. I'm paying some doctor 350 dollars for one hour of a session with him. I will most likely have to go back a few times for 170 dollars an hour. And each blood test is 830 dollars. This is huge, I'm a broke college student.

Before I go to him (Thursday), I'm going to compile a list of questions to ask him. Please help me figure out a list of questions I should ask. Those of you who have read my threads should know what kinda questions I should be asking.

Also, here's the latest. I may have a mild androgen insensitivity syndrome. I may have an androgen receptor mutation. For what it's worth, my;uncle, brother, and I have all had gyno develop during puberty. My brother also didn't respond to steroids until about 2 years ago. Now he responds, so maybe there is luck for me. But again, hormones are hormones... they should work at any age.

Does anyone know what effect an androgen receptor modulator might have on me if I take it while on cycle?

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 10-03-2006, 08:03 PM

u just said u had no money for test prop, but you wanna give this guy 350?plus 800 dlr blood tests? ok

i dunno, its up to you. i think you should experiment for another couple SHORT cycles with the fast acting compounds with nizeral, grapefruit juice, and anthistamine cocktail, then see a doc after you tried the test prop and suspension. As renowned as he might be, theres a chance you might know more about this enzyme thing then he does. And everytime i go beyond the scope of the doctors knowledge when dealing with them they usually wave there hand and push their narrow viewpoint on me and tell me my ideas arent viable.
thats the way docs are, even if they are "cool". But if you do see him, run your ideas about the enzyme by him, and even if he says "no, thats not it, stop chasing that idea." dont abandon your theories unleess hes got a better one.

**Hellmaskbanned** · 10-03-2006, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior21

Hey guys. I'm paying some doctor 350 dollars for one hour of a session with him. I will most likely have to go back a few times for 170 dollars an hour. And each blood test is 830 dollars. This is huge, I'm a broke college student.

Before I go to him (Thursday), I'm going to compile a list of questions to ask him. Please help me figure out a list of questions I should ask. Those of you who have read my threads should know what kinda questions I should be asking.

Also, here's the latest. I may have a mild androgen insensitivity syndrome. I may have an androgen receptor mutation. For what it's worth, my;uncle, brother, and I have all had gyno develop during puberty. My brother also didn't respond to steroids until about 2 years ago. Now he responds, so maybe there is luck for me. But again, hormones are hormones... they should work at any age.

Does anyone know what effect an androgen receptor modulator might have on me if I take it while on cycle?

What does that have to do with it?

**Warrior21** · 10-03-2006, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

u just said u had no money for test prop, but you wanna give this guy 350?plus 800 dlr blood tests? ok

i dunno, its up to you. i think you should experiment for another couple SHORT cycles with the fast acting compounds with nizeral, grapefruit juice, and anthistamine cocktail, then see a doc after you tried the test prop and suspension. As renowned as he might be, theres a chance you might know more about this enzyme thing then he does. And everytime i go beyond the scope of the doctors knowledge when dealing with them they usually wave there hand and push their narrow viewpoint on me and tell me my ideas arent viable.
thats the way docs are, even if they are "cool". But if you do see him, run your ideas about the enzyme by him, and even if he says "no, thats not it, stop chasing that idea." dont abandon your theories unleess hes got a better one.

Yea I'm thinking about the whole test suspension idea. I mean something has to happen if I shoot 200mg test suspension.

Anyways yes it's outrageous. He better fix me up. I think I'd go ballistic if he dosen't have the solution. Actually I think the nizoral/rogaine/antihistamine cocktail did it's part. I stopped Anavar two days ago along with the cocktail. For these past two days my pee has been very very yellow. I think all that Anavar was building up in my system big time until I cut the cocktail out. I probably been peeing it out in these last couple days, now that my CYP3A4 isn't inhibited.

But since the cocktail did in fact work for CYP3A4 inhibition, that means it wasn't the problem. That also means when I find the problem, I can use that cocktail and use much less gear and get great results. At least I can save some money like that.

At the expense of sounding cocky, I gotta tell you you are right about me knowing more about the Cytochrome P450 enzyme system than doctors. Every anti-aging clinic staff (several doctors as well) have been blown away by my knowledge of steroid hormone metabolism. They openly admitted that "I might know more than them". Actually for me it's unfortunate. If no one knows more than me on this subject, that means no one can help me. Therefore I would have to make my own discoveries. Due to the fact that I don't have much funding, it's impossible.

Actually as of 1 hour ago I will not be seeing that doctor. My hot nurse friend is going to talk to the guy who gets her scripts for GH. She says he will be able to help me, he might not even charge me. They also recommend I go see a couple endos and get their opinion.

I'm thinking I might have some sort of androgen receptor mutation, or partial androgen insenstivity. I have/had symptoms of an AIS. I had gyno, and I'm balding. But then again, gyno is not that uncommon, neither is baldness. I dunno I'm looking at this from every possible angle.

I'm glad I still have you guys' support. Its cool when I can talk to people about this.

**Warrior21** · 10-03-2006, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hellmask

What does that have to do with it?

Possible sign of androgen insensitivity, androgen receptor inbalance. Androgen receptor mutations are hereditary.

Again I'm just looking at every possible angle.

Thanks for the input.

**goalseeker** · 10-03-2006, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior21

Hey guys. I'm paying some doctor 350 dollars for one hour of a session with him. I will most likely have to go back a few times for 170 dollars an hour. And each blood test is 830 dollars.

**Warrior21** · 10-03-2006, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by goalseeker

My thoughts exactly. I posted above that I will be talking to some guy around here first. He might not even charge me anything. Maybe I should take him to lunch?

**goalseeker** · 10-03-2006, 08:34 PM

Bloodwork is free in Canada......
I cant believe someone would charge that much to check it... holy crap

**Warrior21** · 10-03-2006, 08:41 PM

It's not regular bloodwork. I think it tests AR's, Steroid levels, and more stuff. It's not your regular test/thyroid/lipids/RBC/Albumin etc etc. He says that in any lab it would cost me 3800 dollars. But they got a contract with Quest Diagnostics. I dunno. Anyways I'm going to exhaust all my other options first b4 going to him. Hopefully I can figure it out. I don't care if I have to take another kind of pill while on-cycle, but I don't want to have to drop 2,000 dollars to do my 400 cycle and get results from it.

**goalseeker** · 10-03-2006, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior21

It's not regular bloodwork. I think it tests AR's, Steroid levels, and more stuff. It's not your regular test/thyroid/lipids/RBC/Albumin etc etc. He says that in any lab it would cost me 3800 dollars. .

**Warrior21** · 10-03-2006, 09:07 PM

LOL, you calling the doc a fag? I'm lost with that smiley.

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 10-03-2006, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior21

Yea I'm thinking about the whole test suspension idea. I mean something has to happen if I shoot 200mg test suspension.

Anyways yes it's outrageous. He better fix me up. I think I'd go ballistic if he dosen't have the solution. Actually I think the nizoral/rogaine/antihistamine cocktail did it's part. I stopped Anavar two days ago along with the cocktail. For these past two days my pee has been very very yellow. I think all that Anavar was building up in my system big time until I cut the cocktail out. I probably been peeing it out in these last couple days, now that my CYP3A4 isn't inhibited.

But since the cocktail did in fact work for CYP3A4 inhibition, that means it wasn't the problem. That also means when I find the problem, I can use that cocktail and use much less gear and get great results. At least I can save some money like that.

At the expense of sounding cocky, I gotta tell you you are right about me knowing more about the Cytochrome P450 enzyme system than doctors. Every anti-aging clinic staff (several doctors as well) have been blown away by my knowledge of steroid hormone metabolism. They openly admitted that "I might know more than them". Actually for me it's unfortunate. If no one knows more than me on this subject, that means no one can help me. Therefore I would have to make my own discoveries. Due to the fact that I don't have much funding, it's impossible.

Actually as of 1 hour ago I will not be seeing that doctor. My hot nurse friend is going to talk to the guy who gets her scripts for GH. She says he will be able to help me, he might not even charge me. They also recommend I go see a couple endos and get their opinion.

I'm thinking I might have some sort of androgen receptor mutation, or partial androgen insenstivity. I have/had symptoms of an AIS. I had gyno, and I'm balding. But then again, gyno is not that uncommon, neither is baldness. I dunno I'm looking at this from every possible angle.

I'm glad I still have you guys' support. Its cool when I can talk to people about this.

how can u say it did its part when u havent run it with a stronger compound? no offense but i told you before Anavar sucks. I think you have to try the cocktail with a couple other SHORT cycles. Test prop, and then susp. its possible the suspension MAY work without it, but just run it just in case.

im not saying your androgen insesitivity idea is dumb. its also great. But when you have a probem like yours, you gotta EXHAUST each theory before ditching it, and you havent milked your CYP enzyme theory yet with just stinky anavar

**Warrior21** · 10-03-2006, 10:14 PM

How 'sucky' can Anavar be at 4x the recommended dose? Thats like saying primo at 2 grams a week is 'weak'. Its pretty well known that Primo over 1g a week tends to help you gain big time.
If I order susp and prop it will easily take 2 weeks to get here. Then of course I gotta get the lab supplies to convert it, tack on another week. Here's another thing, Anavar isn't metabolized by the liver. Anavar metabolism mostly takes place in the kidney. This is the only AS that is mainly metabolized by kidneys. With 200mg of it daily, some of it was bound to get in my body. Now if it got into my blood and didn't have anywhere to attach, thats the problem.
Is it possible for androgen receptors to be slightly mutated, so that exogenous androgens cannot recognize them? Keep in mind the other drugs which do not exert their anabolic effect via androgen receptor too. So there is more here going on than just CYP3A4 and mutated androgen receptors.
Dianabol , which I have taken, for example, exerts it's anabolic effects without strong binding to the androgen receptors. So there goes my AR theory out the door too huh?
Just got off the phone with a pharm student. He told me I should go talk to some endos. He also suggested than I befriend doctors at my gym, maybe they would help. Anyone know a good doctor in their town which I could call up?

**goalseeker** · 10-03-2006, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior21

LOL, you calling the doc a fag? I'm lost with that smiley.

LOL.. no... Its just that I couldnt imagine paying $3800 to get blood checked.. For that kinda dough, you could get plastic surgery and build your own biceps!!!

**Warrior21** · 10-03-2006, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by goalseeker

LOL.. no... Its just that I couldnt imagine paying $3800 to get blood checked.. For that kinda dough, you could get plastic surgery and build your own biceps!!!

Heh, there's nothing like the real thing. I'd do synthol in the bi's over plastic surgery any day. But I'm not going to take part in either. Yea it's alot of money. In the long run, Id be saving money doing it now though. I've already wasted 1500+ dollars on gear.

**goalseeker** · 10-03-2006, 11:16 PM

Are you serious? 4 grand to get your blood checked? ???Drive up to Canada and go to a walk in clinic... might cost you $100 if you need the results in a hurry, but that would be about it.....

**Warrior21** · 10-03-2006, 11:24 PM

Never been out of FL. I'm not going to that guy. I'm going to check out my options in town first. I'll check every endocrinologist within a 35 mile radius from here.
Thanks for the advice though. Too bad they don't have gear in Canada too. I could get my work done and juice while I'm there!

**stupidhippo** · 10-04-2006, 03:37 AM

well IMO the dbol thing doesnt throw anything out of the window... I would like to see som real evidence where it states that most of dbols effects are through non-AR mediated ways..
good link about that:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

**stupidhippo** · 10-04-2006, 03:43 AM

also I think its madness in ur state to pay such huge amounts of money for these things.. I mean if u are a poor student.. I mean its more than probable that u aint gonna find anything that will make u respond well to low doses. How bout a single try with test / deca cycle with pretty high dose (1g/600mg) and keep a training log + diet log and keep us posted on the results... I mean what are u expecting to gain from steroids ? they dont make u instantly huge! Ive juiced for a year and a half now and Im the same size but a lil leaner. I feel that for me to get much bigger than this I should either cycle very often with bigger doses or cruise. What I mean is: I gain 20 lbs on every cycle, after PCT I start slowly losing them (even after my HPTA is recovered) and about 6 months after a cycle Im pretty much there where I started from (this applies especially to bench, I benched 375 lbs naturally and after cycles thats where it seems to drop.. My point is really that Im afraid u are waisting a lot of energy and money to accomplish what? getting maybe a lil bigger?Do u aim to competE?

**Warrior21** · 10-04-2006, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by stupidhippo

also I think its madness in ur state to pay such huge amounts of money for these things.. I mean if u are a poor student.. I mean its more than probable that u aint gonna find anything that will make u respond well to low doses. How bout a single try with test / deca cycle with pretty high dose (1g/600mg) and keep a training log + diet log and keep us posted on the results... I mean what are u expecting to gain from steroids? they dont make u instantly huge! Ive juiced for a year and a half now and Im the same size but a lil leaner. I feel that for me to get much bigger than this I should either cycle very often with bigger doses or cruise. What I mean is: I gain 20 lbs on every cycle, after PCT I start slowly losing them (even after my HPTA is recovered) and about 6 months after a cycle Im pretty much there where I started from (this applies especially to bench, I benched 375 lbs naturally and after cycles thats where it seems to drop.. My point is really that Im afraid u are waisting a lot of energy and money to accomplish what? getting maybe a lil bigger?Do u aim to competE?

I'm going to exhaust all my lower cost options first. How come I cannot respond to male hormones? Something is clearly wrong and I'm going to find out what. I'll be looking for good endos in the area. I don't expect to pay those huge amounts I was going to pay with the guy in Boca Raton.He is a private health care agent.
I'm not looking to be huge overnight. I think you know that already man. It's not like I'm gaining 20 lbs on a cycle, and then complaining that I'm not seeing anything. I'm not gaining shit from my cycles, therefore I have reason to wonder what the hell is going on. I know plenty of people who get on and blow up despite good diet/ lifestyle. They go out and drink 2-3x a week.
I do plan on competing. I want to at least dominate the amatuer ranks. I know I got a few state competitions won, lets see if I can go national. But getting my bodyfat low naturally is next to impossible.

**stupidhippo** · 10-04-2006, 01:02 PM

I find it strange that u dont respond to anabolics even if u dont show any signs of hypogonadism. u clearly respond to ur own test.. but then again, there is a reason y u are a low-responder.. hope u find it, good luck! but as far as getting real answers / solutions im pretty sceptical.. i hope the best for ya man!

**Warrior21** · 10-04-2006, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by stupidhippo

I find it strange that u dont respond to anabolics even if u dont show any signs of hypogonadism. u clearly respond to ur own test.. but then again, there is a reason y u are a low-responder.. hope u find it, good luck! but as far as getting real answers / solutions im pretty sceptical.. i hope the best for ya man!

Yep, I clearly respond to my own test. Just goes to show that your body can tell the difference between your own test and synthetic test. I've never heard of anybody in this situation either. My friend said that his rejuv doctor had someone who couldn't gain on cycle either. Then again he talks too much though.

I dunno but I hope I figure something out. I swear this is a ballbuster, cuz my brother was in my same shoes. Now he responds good!

**V_Vandetta** · 10-04-2006, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by goalseeker

LOL.. no... Its just that I couldnt imagine paying $3800 to get blood checked.. For that kinda dough, you could get plastic surgery and build your own biceps!!!

LMAO I was thinking the same thing... thats a lot of money i have never heard of it costing that much Well if he dont have insurnace than maybe even then i would buy health insurance .. becasue his problem is medical( I think) even then it would be cheaper ... what country do you live in ?

**Warrior21** · 10-04-2006, 01:17 PM

I have health care insurance. They are a private health care agency. They insist that if insurance paid for the consultations they wouldn't pay for more than 10 minutes worth of the doctors time. I swear if I went to him and he didn't know what was wrong, I'd probably tear his office up good. Heh, my natty test levels are decent eh.
But honestly yea it seems to be a medical problem. I will be talking to a guy later on tonight who is good with steroids . Lets see how much he really knows. Most of the endos I have called I cannot even ask questions about, the nurses insist I come in. What are the chances of me being arrested from admittance to steroid use at a doctors office?

**stupidhippo** · 10-04-2006, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior21

Yep, I clearly respond to my own test. Just goes to show that your body can tell the difference between your own test and synthetic test. I've never heard of anybody in this situation either. My friend said that his rejuv doctor had someone who couldn't gain on cycle either. Then again he talks too much though.

I dunno but I hope I figure something out. I swear this is a ballbuster, cuz my brother was in my same shoes. Now he responds good!

keep ur fingers crossed that it will happen to u 2! but again I think its premature to say ur body responds to endogenous test better than exo... it might also be that u just dont respond to anythign over the physiological limits now etc..... .

**Warrior21** · 10-04-2006, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by stupidhippo

keep ur fingers crossed that it will happen to u 2! but again I think its premature to say ur body responds to endogenous test better than exo... it might also be that u just dont respond to anythign over the physiological limits now etc..... .

Can you elaborate? You're suggesting theres a max capacity of hormones our body can use at once or something? Everybodies level is possibly different?

**stupidhippo** · 10-04-2006, 01:40 PM

i mean evereything is possible. there is so much still unknown to us... usually ppl tend to oversimpily things, like: everything has to do with upregulation/downregulation , but they dont know that upregulation can also cause tolerance, not always mean added response... sometimes false assumptions will be made when not taken into consideration the complexity of things.. another example: dbol not binding strongly to AR = dbols effects are mediated throughnon -AR pathways... etc etc... i mean thats y ppl study and investigate things and it never hurts to try but we are far from knowing everything yet. anecdotal evidence is very important still. ur best chance to find a solution to ur problems is with the specialists of the field or more importatntly ur brother! what happened to him ? will the same happen to u? did sumin trigger it?

**Warrior21** · 10-04-2006, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by stupidhippo

i mean evereything is possible. there is so much still unknown to us... usually ppl tend to oversimpily things, like: everything has to do with upregulation/downregulation , but they dont know that upregulation can also cause tolerance, not always mean added response... sometimes false assumptions will be made when not taken into consideration the complexity of things.. another example: dbol not binding strongly to AR = dbols effects are mediated throughnon -AR pathways... etc etc... i meanthat y ppl study and investigate things and it never hurts to try but we are far from knowing everything yet.

Yep, it seems like the more I learn the more I realize how little I know. The fact that we don't know much about steroids might bite me in the ass on this one. I have yet to speak to any nurses at the endo offices who can answer any of my questions.

One thing I noticed, my body is very similar to my brothers. We both developed gyno around the same time. We both started losing our hair around the same time (age-wise). If I am too respond to steroids without any further treatment, it might be in about a year from now. He was 22 when he started responding. I just turned 22 though.