*Study states shutdown of Testosterone can be avoided, whilst taking Test Enan!*

[Swifto]

....

[Swifto]

Another reason why to use HCG whilst "on". As an endriconologist once posted on another board, "A good PCT protocol starts from the beginning"...

Or something like that.

[V_Vandetta]

Avoid shutdown of T, when using Test Enan "200mg/wk" if you use HCG.

Study below:


Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, et al. Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005;90(5):2595-602.

ABSTRACT

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

Anyone seen this?

I know its only 3 weeks long...Still intresting though.

very.......... interesting .... indeed good post swifto

[ebjack]

testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration

That had to fxcking hurt like hell!!!!

[spywizard]

testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration

That had to fxcking hurt like hell!!!!

and they did it twice.. 1 time at the begining, and once at the end..

[Tesla]

You know, this is something I've always wondered about. I mean, if you're using HCG throughout your cycle and you're not totally shutting your natural test down, couldn't you theoretically obtain greater gains?

[BrokenBricks]

This is awsome

[FLBMWMech]

Fantastic! Just like I posted the other day-- when I used HCG with my DECA/Test cycle-- it cut my recovery time in half (as opposed to just Nolva during PCT)

[skipp]

It just scares me to use it the whole cycle, because you might make your boys less sensitive to LH. Although after reading this study we can safely say it doesn't happen after 3 weeks.

Thanks swifto, I'll now start my HCG 3 weeks from my last shot... Great info.

[Schmidty]

[QUOTE=ebjack]testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration

Does that mean they stuck their balls?

[BrokenBricks]

One thing, I'm disapointed the didnt measure blood free and bound test. Personally I wouldnt care to much about the amount of test in my balls specificaly. Im not trying to impregnate anyone. If ITT is not a good indicator of blood test this could still mean libido loss and atrophy of muscle could still occur. ITT is naturally very high becuase the sertoli cells secrete a binding protien that keeps the stuff around. If HCG stimulates the secretion of those binding protiens to a large degree you would expect normal levels of ITT to mean low levels out circulating test. Either they were only concerned with spematogenisis and not give a hoot about libido and muscle loss or ITT does correlate with circulating test, in which case, they should have said so. Bitches.

[sheltonn]

Sure. When I had my vasectomy, they gave me a valium to calm me down, then a local. I was totally relaxed.


Hey, what's the burning smell??? Oh, just my nuts



[QUOTE=Schmidty]

testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration

Does that mean they stuck their balls?

[RA]

[quote=sheltonn]Sure. When I had my vasectomy, they gave me a valium to calm me down, then a local. I was totally relaxed.


Hey, what's the burning smell??? Oh, just my nuts





Your lucky, they didnt give me shit before the approx 4 shots per nut.

[skipp]

You guys just gave me the chills....

[fLgAtOr]

Ok, so you nuts function better when using HCG. We knew that.

But does ITT relate to levels of natural LH? Does this address the HPTA, which would also be shut down?

[BrokenBricks]

Ok, so you nuts function better when using HCG. We knew that.

But does ITT relate to levels of natural LH? Does this address the HPTA, which would also be shut down?

HPTA is the hypothalamic testicualr axis, which is a term meant to describe the whole hormonal system. The Hypothalamus releases GnRH which stimulares the pitutary to secrete LH and FSH. LH stimulates Lydig cells to secrete test and your FSH along with that test stimulates sertoli cells to create sperm. HCG mimics LH. So what do you get? HGC will increase your test, but that cuts GnRH and LH out of the loop, they are no longer needed depending on if you take enough HCG to completely recover test production. If you take enough HCG to get test levels out of the crapper, but quite normal or above normal, your hypothalamus will begin to pick up the slack and get back online. So the idea is to give your hypothalamus time to catch up without having to suffer test levels so low that you lose all gains.

[vein-x]

Very interesting.. so could you technically run a 12 week bulker with chems like deca, test enan, tren etc.. and run it with hcg throughout just fine? Or are they only saying it's safe for 200mg/week of Test E and NOTHING else or NOTHING higher?

[fLgAtOr]

If you take enough HCG to get test levels out of the crapper, but quite normal or above normal, your hypothalamus will begin to pick up the slack and get back online. So the idea is to give your hypothalamus time to catch up without having to suffer test levels so low that you lose all gains.

With the help of other compounds like clomid, aromasin, etc etc.?

I other words its easier to get the hypothalamus working if it doesn't have to worry about jump starting other processes down the line (testes)?