Thread: Winny Oral vs Inject Doses
-
10-10-2006, 02:16 PM #1
I was wondering why people take much smaller doses of winny when its a tab then when its ijectable.
If its for the liver toxicity that is really stupid since even when injected the winny will go through the liver just as much as if it was eaten the only difference being that it doesn't necessarily hit first pass all in one before circulating around like when you eat it. But that won't affect the amount of liver fatigue per/mg.
-
10-10-2006, 02:32 PM #2Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- somewhere
- Posts
- 2,738
interesting question... does it cause more strain on the liver or not if it avoids the first passage?
-
10-10-2006, 03:01 PM #3
I bet the difference is very small. Its a very hpatoxic compound, injected or administered orally. Well...Thats what the literature says. Yet to run it yet.
Be intrested to see how my liver values come back as I've run Tbol for 10 weeks at 60-80mg/ED, with VERY little effect on my liver.
-
10-10-2006, 07:22 PM #4Junior Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Posts
- 59
What dosage on the oral? I read on here it's average life is 8 hours?? and that you should do 25mg 2x a day? Does that seem right? A buddy of mine injects 50mg every other day. (That's a lot of pokes!)
-
10-10-2006, 07:31 PM #5
inject...i took orals and saw minimal results
-
10-10-2006, 10:15 PM #6Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- somewhere
- Posts
- 2,738
according to AR the orals are better to use to lower SHBG... im trying that now, appliying oral winny at the 8th week mark of test / deca cycle..
-
10-10-2006, 10:38 PM #7
I run it 3 time injectable....love it..!!!
LPR.
-
10-11-2006, 12:33 AM #8
Bump.
Anyone?
-
10-11-2006, 02:49 AM #9Banned
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Posts
- 36
Originally Posted by Andros
good question!
-
10-11-2006, 03:06 AM #10Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Posts
- 657
itz the exact opposite of that ...
-
10-11-2006, 03:09 AM #11Banned
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Posts
- 36
opposite of what..
-
10-11-2006, 03:33 AM #12Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Posts
- 657
when you take oral AAS they pass through the liver twive...whreas the injectables pass through only once...
my feeling is that people tend to take a much higher dose of winny tabs..cause they don't have to worry about the injections..and due to itz verry short life..
-
10-11-2006, 04:18 AM #13Banned
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Posts
- 36
the function of the liver in the body is to remove urea (or acid) from the body just as the glands below ur skin is to remove sweats from the body (perspiration). so my opinion was that ingesting dosages say 100mg a day for 12 wk cycle may or may not have the same effect as injection of 2.5 cc for whole cycle. But alcohol and liver problems...there are mountain of proven studies that leads to toxity as ....Andros said in this post.
-
10-11-2006, 04:26 AM #14
The differnence is minimal. Around 17% less nitrogen retention when administering it orally, when compared to injecting it.
-
10-11-2006, 04:15 PM #15
I've seen many cycles with 100mg ED or EOD injections of winny but never heard anyone say they take the same amount in tablets.
As far as the two passes throught the liver, that shouldn't be true; I mean yes the tabs go throught the liver as they travel from the digestive system into circulation (through the hepatic vein) before they reach systemic circulation BUT each molecule of Stanozol will eventually be enzymatically broken down by the liver 100% so if the amounts are the same damage should also be equal.....right?
-
10-11-2006, 05:16 PM #16
winny is mild i find so i dont notice much. the only reason im running it right now is because i have a shit load of it. 4 weeks 200mg+ a day.
-
10-11-2006, 05:19 PM #17Originally Posted by Andros
-
10-11-2006, 05:27 PM #18Originally Posted by pumpd4lif
I was talking about the oral.
What I was saying is that x mg of drugs will poison x amount of receptors regardless of wether it goes through the hepatic vein and then circulates (oral) or wether it just circulates (injectable).
-
10-11-2006, 07:55 PM #19Originally Posted by Andros
Your question... "why do people take less injectable than oral winny"...
You've got it wrong... cus it's the other way around.\
Nark
-
10-12-2006, 12:58 AM #20Originally Posted by Narkissos
Really?? Ok I'll keep an eye out for cycles that include it.
-
10-12-2006, 01:10 AM #21Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- somewhere
- Posts
- 2,738
Originally Posted by Andros
-
10-12-2006, 01:46 AM #22Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Posts
- 657
Originally Posted by Narkissos
finally someone found the right words...
-
10-12-2006, 02:07 AM #23Originally Posted by stupidhippo
-
10-12-2006, 02:14 AM #24Originally Posted by Andros
-
10-12-2006, 04:15 AM #25Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- somewhere
- Posts
- 2,738
swifto: isnt the proportion metabolized by the skeletal muscle and the gut still very small? I mean most of the hormone is really metabolized by the liver in the end? Im not 100% sure so anyone who knows better please correct me..
Last edited by stupidhippo; 10-12-2006 at 04:18 AM.
-
10-12-2006, 06:39 AM #26
This is from Anthony Roberts talking about injectable vs. oral:
"So I think it’s safe to say that some of the “hard” look you can get in your physique from Winstrol is because of it’s ability to inhibit estrogen and progesterone- known culprits in making a physique appear smooth. Unfortunately, since it is 17aa, it is also liver toxic, especially more so when you inject it and it is subject to what is known as the “first pass” through the liver. The difference between taking oral vs. injectable Winstrol, even though it’s technically the same drug, is how and when your body metabolizes it. When you consume a drug orally, that drug is absorbed from the Gastrointestinal tract, where it then passes via the portal vein into the liver -where some drugs are metabolised. This “first pass” can mean that only a certain portion of the drug reaches your body’s bloodstream. As previously discussed, a 17aa has been attached to Winstrol to allow a sizeable portion to survive this metabolism.
First pass metabolism can occur in both the gut and the liver, and where this happens can vary with different drugs. First pass metabolism actually occurs in your gut for some drugs and in the liver for others. Once it has been metabolized, it enters the bloodstream. It’s important to note that when a blood is metabolized in the Gastrointestinal tract, the blood leaving the Gastrointestinal tract does not go right to the heart, but actually still passes through liver via the hepatic portal vein and then ultimately returns to circulation via the hepatic vein. The liver is your body’s filtration unit, and removes large quantities of nutrients, dangerous toxins (or fun toxins, depending on what they are) and other substances from the blood.
So as you can see, when you take an oral steroid such as Winstrol, undergoes a first-pass metabolism in the both the intestines as well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more or less totally intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is through this first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood until it is acquired by another tissue, such as skeletal muscle. Now, if the drug reaches the liver again, it may undergo what is cleverly known as “second-pass” metabolism. Of course, in the case of Winstrol, an injectable version is available, and when we compare the oral and injectable versions of Winstrol and their effects in your body, I think there’s some surprising differences. The injectable is (naturally) put right into your bloodstream and only undergoes the far less extensive second pass metabolism, while the oral must endure the gut and liver on it’s first pass before ending up in circulation."
See that bit thats underlined. Isnt that a typo and meant to say when administered orally its more toxic?!
Just read it. I'm confused now!
-
10-12-2006, 08:07 AM #27Anabolic Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- somewhere
- Posts
- 2,738
i dont know..... im also confused i mean it could be either.. my pharma knowledge isnt enough to exclude either...
-
10-12-2006, 08:17 AM #28
I think its a typo as he goes on to talk about orally absorbed winstrol first.
Dam...Where is AR when you need him?!
But surely the less a compounds passes through various organs and enters into circulation, the less toxic or damge its doing...?
-
10-12-2006, 08:37 AM #29
Anthony! Was it a typo?!
-
10-12-2006, 09:03 AM #30Senior Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Posts
- 1,054
Originally Posted by Swifto
But if you inject 100% you're totally avoiding the first pass through the gut and it would all be filtered by the liver.. so it would be more than 50%, maybe not 100% but definatly more than the oral.
-
10-12-2006, 09:06 AM #31
I'm totally lost.
-
10-12-2006, 09:06 AM #32Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Posts
- 657
inject are by far better...
-
10-12-2006, 09:09 AM #33Originally Posted by skipp
I understand what your saying though.
-
10-12-2006, 09:17 AM #34Senior Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Posts
- 1,054
Originally Posted by Swifto
But with the injectable the 100% makes it in the blood so 50% and 50 get metabolized by the muscle and liver (50% each)
Now I doubt the ratio of what gets digested by the liver/skelatal muscle is 50/50, but it will be the same for both. So either way the liver does get a little more stress with the IM version..
I feel the gains achieved with the IM far surpass the extra liver toxcitiy.
-
10-12-2006, 09:24 AM #35Originally Posted by skipp
-
10-12-2006, 09:33 AM #36Senior Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Posts
- 1,054
They're theoretical, but it doesn't matter what numbers you use. That's my point. The liver always gets less compound orally.
-
10-12-2006, 09:35 AM #37
Not that I dont disagree with your theory. I;d just like a second opinion.
I've PM'd some Mods/Vets.
-
10-12-2006, 09:44 AM #38Senior Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Posts
- 1,054
Oh no definatly, I'm just thinking out loud. Let me know what you come up with.
There's a lot of things that sound great on paper and isn't even close to real life.
-
10-12-2006, 09:47 AM #39
I've asked Anthony to comment on the article he wrote. I wasnt sure if its a typo or I totally dont undertstand it...!
-
I dont even see why this thread has went on this long.
Fist off for all you guys that think winny is miled your wrong. Winny is a very harsh compound.
There are meany reasons why winny dose is different from injectable to oral. Most people do not wont to run as high of a does with oral. this is because it will and dose pass throw the live 2x and is harder on the live.
Why is winny is injectable more potent is because or the nitrogen retention. You you do not have the brake down of the compound in the digestive system.
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)
Gearheaded
12-30-2024, 06:57 AM in ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS