Sub for CLen????

**Blakes** · 10-26-2006, 01:05 PM

Whats the closest thing to Clen ...I was dead set on getting clen until i kept reading about how hard it is on the body and i dont need that on my heart. So what is the closest thing to clen(increases muscle and decreases body fat) but just has less side effects?

**fLgAtOr** · 10-26-2006, 01:18 PM

Ephedra and caffine still work great.

**ghoul000** · 10-26-2006, 03:20 PM

Ephedra just cuts back your appetite. There for if you quick eating as much you`ll lose weight, not necessarily body fat. You eat the same...you'll just get energy and ephrda is bad on your heart as well. Seems like the health risks of Ephedra are a lot higher also.

**skipp** · 10-26-2006, 04:47 PM

Ephedra doesn't just cut your appitite, that's absolutely not true. Although it isn't as selective as clen it is still very powerful.

But I do agree that ephedra is probably just as bad, if not worse for you than clen.

Tren increases muscle and decreases bf. But I doubt you're considering that

lol

**cfiler** · 10-26-2006, 07:35 PM

ECA is the closest thing to Clen . Although you won't be building muscle on it.

Most users would not gain muscle and lose weight with clen. It's primarily a thermogenic, like ECA.

Although ECA may be worse on the heart than Clen.

**fLgAtOr** · 10-27-2006, 06:11 AM

In all honesty I don't think there are many stimulants that don't put some kind of strain on the heart (small or large).

If your biggest concern if keeping the ticker in good shape or if you have some kind of a condition, then have a cup of coffee before your cardio, or even nothing at all.

I've done all kinds of energy boosters and stuff, but I still enjoy a cup of coffee in the morning.

**magic32** · 10-27-2006, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by fLgAtOr

In all honesty I don't think there are many stimulants that don't put some kind of strain on the heart (small or large).

If your biggest concern if keeping the ticker in good shape or if you have some kind of a condition, then have a cup of coffee before your cardio, or even nothing at all.

I've done all kinds of energy boosters and stuff, but I still enjoy a cup of coffee in the morning.

Very true!

Ephedra is milder than Clen as illustrated by its primary property…it raises the core temperature only a few percentage points, whereas Clen will breach double digits. In comparison, DNP has no upper limit, meaning you can literally cook yourself from the inside which is why dosing is so very important with this product. But I digress.

Contrary to popular belief Ephedra has absolutely no appetite suppressant properties. However, what generally happens especially with novice users, is that the energy and mental clarity (the loss of which is often a sign of low blood glucose levels) generated from Ephedra is often mistaken for nourishment permitting one to omit meals.

So to answer your original question Ephedra is milder and safer then Clen and would be a suitable replacement. Additionally, its cousins Synephrine (the main "active" compound found in the fruit of a plant called Citrus aurantium; aka. Green, Sour, or Bitter Orange) and L-Tyrosine (makes me dizzy) are milder still.

M.

**fLgAtOr** · 10-27-2006, 12:32 PM

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Oh the puns!

**Giants11** · 10-27-2006, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by skipp

Ephedra doesn't just cut your appitite, that's absolutely not true. Although it isn't as selective as clen it is still very powerful.

But I do agree that ephedra is probably just as bad, if not worse for you than clen.

Tren increases muscle and decreases bf. But I doubt you're considering that

lol

Not even close, Ephedra has dozens of studies on long term use showing no ill effects.

The dangers are purely media induced.

**Giants11** · 10-27-2006, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by cfiler

ECA is the closest thing to Clen . Although you won't be building muscle on it.

Most users would not gain muscle and lose weight with clen. It's primarily a thermogenic, like ECA.

Although ECA may be worse on the heart than Clen.

You won;t build muscle with Clen either.

The doses required to do so would kill a human.

**Giants11** · 10-27-2006, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by fLgAtOr

In all honesty I don't think there are many stimulants that don't put some kind of strain on the heart (small or large).

If your biggest concern if keeping the ticker in good shape or if you have some kind of a condition, then have a cup of coffee before your cardio, or even nothing at all.

I've done all kinds of energy boosters and stuff, but I still enjoy a cup of coffee in the morning.

True but Clen , has been shown to cause Myocyte death in Rats.

Granted this applies to Rats, but do you wanna take the chance.

And to put things in perpective there are alot of things we ingest based in studies done on Rats.

**skipp** · 10-27-2006, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Giants11

Not even close, Ephedra has dozens of studies on long term use showing no ill effects.

The dangers are purely media induced.

You're saying there are no dangers? Now I know that isn't true, and raising your core temp, even a degree puts strain on your body. Which, in turn, would make it dangerous if used wrong. Or if used right with preexisiting conditions.

**Giants11** · 10-27-2006, 01:21 PM

Of course it is, used in the wrong manner.

You do realize that you can kill your self with water too right.

The point is Epherdra has long terms studies backing is saftey and efficiency. Which is why it is legal (THe HCL salt is) still for astma, while clen is not.

**skipp** · 10-27-2006, 01:27 PM

Chinese people using it for hundreds of years doesn't count as a study.. lol jp

**Giants11** · 10-27-2006, 01:30 PM

Lol....

**lifterjaydawg** · 10-27-2006, 04:59 PM

bump

**ascendant** · 10-27-2006, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Giants11

Of course it is, used in the wrong manner.

You do realize that you can kill your self with water too right.

The point is Epherdra has long terms studies backing is saftey and efficiency. Which is why it is legal (THe HCL salt is) still for astma, while clen is not.

though i completely agree that ephedra alone would most likely be safer than clen for most people, ephedra alone isn't nearly as powerful as clen. in order to make it so, you need to combine it as an ECA stack, at which point i believe which one is safer is considered highly controversial, but many tend to favor the clen safety-wise over the ECA at that point.

also, though i know your justification behind ephedras safety is about dosing, the same can be said about clen. personally, i think that either taken sensibly should cause minimal side-effects and shouldn't cause any serious concerns with anyone who has a healthy heart. as for those who don't, i wouldn't encourage the use of any stimulants due to the fact that as already stated by someone else, all stimulants will put more stress on the heart one way or another.

now, i'd like to know blakes if you have concerns for your heart because of a pre-existing condition you have or just horror-stories you heard about clen online? if it's just about the stories, forget them. as long as you just gradually increase your dose initially and don't go over what you can physically handle within a reasonable limit, you'll be perfectly fine.