I'm new here and I am a wife with questions

**zlemi** · 12-21-2006, 10:10 AM

I'm not sure if you will welcome my question here, but I am going to try anyway.

My dh has been taking for about 3 years, apparently he has decreased his dosage to either stop or for money reasons. I have recently found out that he has been suicidal and many other things are going on with him. Many things I can see, like aggression, mania, etc. We have 5 small children and he is a good person, but our lives are really suffering. I have tried to do some research on the computer to get more info about coming off, but I can only find information about what happens to you. Well I know what happens, but can anyone give me information about how to come off without totally going crazy. I thought antidepressants were the answer, not to take forever, but just temporarily until his body straightens out. I would appreciate any feedback and I hope I have not offended anyone or posted improperly. Thanks.

**notorious_mem** · 12-21-2006, 10:22 AM

what are you talking about exactly?

**zlemi** · 12-21-2006, 10:28 AM

steroids . I know he does injectibles, he is down to like once a week and he takes a little white pill. Do you need to know specifically, or is that sufficient. (don't know if I knwo specifically anyway)

**spywizard** · 12-21-2006, 10:32 AM

more information, it's not wise for anyone to stay "on" for more than 3 months is a longer cycle..

a little white pill could be almost anything..

depression is not something that is normal while on steroids , and manic behavior is not typical either..

A doc.. specifically an endonoligist will be able to get him straightened out in regards to his hormone condition..

Steroids are not habit forming, rec drugs are.. it is pshycological dependance that is developed with body image issues causing this behavior..

hope that helps..

**SS1476** · 12-21-2006, 10:34 AM

No offence to you..but maybe
direct him here for help rather
than letting the family suffer.

GET BLOOD WORK DONE

Just my 2cc's worth

**zlemi** · 12-21-2006, 10:40 AM

Omnadren i guess are the shots... Winstrol ? Primoteston depot? and I can't remember what that stupid little pill is called?

something he sent me.....

Scientific research also shows that aggression and other psychiatric side effects may result from abuse of anabolic steroids . Many users report feeling good about themselves while on anabolic steroids , but researchers report that extreme mood swings also can occur, including manic-like symptoms leading to violence. Depression often is seen when the drugs are stopped and may contribute to dependence on anabolic steroids. Researchers report also that users may suffer from paranoid jealousy, extreme irritability, delusions, and impaired judgment stemming from feelings of invincibility. 1

Anabolic steroid users may become dependent on the drug, with symptoms of withdrawal after cessation of drug use. The withdrawal symptoms consist of aggressive and violent behavior, mental depression with suicidal behavior, mood changes, and in some cases acute psychosis. At present it is unknown which individuals are particularly at risk. It is likely that great individual differences in responsiveness may exist. Some individuals try to minimize the withdrawal affects by administration of human choriogonadotropins (hCG ), in order to enhance endogenous testosterone production. However, it is unknown in how far the hCG administration is successful in ameliorating the withdrawal effects.

**zlemi** · 12-21-2006, 10:43 AM

SS1476, no offense taken. I know... he may even be.. He has just recently sought help with a counselor... and just today is figuring that this may be part of his problem. So I was just trying to get some info on my own. But after his apt. today I will see what he says and direct him here. He'll probably get mad at me...

**SS1476** · 12-21-2006, 10:46 AM

Im guessing it's safe to assume that
neither you or him know about PCT?

(post cycle therapy )

He shouldn't get mad at you for caring.

**zlemi** · 12-21-2006, 10:50 AM

Oh thats clomid right? He is not taking that now. He did that when we were trying to conceive over a year ago. he must still have the bottle.

**mickdiesel** · 12-21-2006, 10:52 AM

she needs help and is asking the people that will know as much as anyone other than a doc. I experience slight depression when coming off or when I miss 2 or 3 days of shots for whatever reason. get him on saint johns wart for now. for coming off have him take 100mg of clomid for 3 days, then 50mg for the next month. also 40mg of nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) for a week and then 20mg a day for 3 weeks. that will help his body recover. the clomid may actually deepen his depression a lil so double the saint johns wart dosage. now it may seem crazy to u to put him on something that will make his depression worse but it will help him recover. u don't want him growing breasts or getting fat cause then hell just want to go back on. it also sounds like he's not taking nearly enough. this is probably y he's depressed. his blood levels are unstable and its fu$%ing him up. theres no readily available or popular steroid that can be shot once a week and be effective, and from what uve explainedhes def not an experienced guy experimenting with a new exotic compound.
the way to take steroids is to do the full dose for the correct amount of time and then start the recovery process or "pct". u can't ween off because that just makes chaos in ur body and ur body tries to reach homeostasis by sending all kinds of hormones out there to try and balance out the chaos.theres a lot of research u can do in the other forums on this site that will help.

most of all good luck

**SS1476** · 12-21-2006, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by caban

she needs help and is asking the people that will know as much as anyone other than a doc. I experience slight depression when coming off or when I miss 2 or 3 days of shots for whatever reason. get him on saint johns wart for now. for coming off have him take 100mg of clomid for 3 days, then 50mg for the next month. also 40mg of nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) for a week and then 20mg a day for 3 weeks. that will help his body recover. the clomid may actually deepen his depression a lil so double the saint johns wart dosage. now it may seem crazy to u to put him on something that will make his depression worse but it will help him recover. u don't want him growing breasts or getting fat cause then hell just want to go back on. it also sounds like he's not taking nearly enough. this is probably y he's depressed. his blood levels are unstable and its fu$%ing him up. theres no readily available or popular steroid that can be shot once a week and be effective, and from what uve explainedhes def not an experienced guy experimenting with a new exotic compound.
the way to take steroids is to do the full dose for the correct amount of time and then start the recovery process or "pct". u can't ween off because that just makes chaos in ur body and ur body tries to reach homeostasis by sending all kinds of hormones out there to try and balance out the chaos.theres a lot of research u can do in the other forums on this site that will help.

most of all good luck

He was on for 3yrs bro,thats very long.
BLOOD WORK is the only way to know
where he is at right now.

Yes,a PCT can be done,and may help..

---
zlemi,yes..possibly clomid.

OK,I'll ask...have his nuts shrunk
bad compared to 3-4 yrs ago?

EDIT:I want to state that PCT
should be done until recovered.
Not for a set duration..IMO.

**zlemi** · 12-21-2006, 11:13 AM

NO, he had the bloating pretty bad at one time and he has the acne, but no difference there.

***G-1000*** · 12-21-2006, 11:18 AM

If he has been on for 3 years there is a physiological problem he has. I would have him see a therapist just for starters. Then from there have him stop his cycle and start some kind of PCT. If he has been on for 3 years he will need more then clomid by it’s self. But at that point I would have him see the Doc and explain what he has been doing and get full blood work done.

At lest he will me monitored by the therapist and the doc. So if depression becomes a problem they can address it. As for his behavior there are studies that show steroids do care anger problem. But also on the other hand there are studies that show it don’t. This is a physiological issue with in him self.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 12-21-2006, 11:39 AM

^agree with above^ he needs help from professionals. There is more going on here than just a guy coming off AS. Being on for three yrs and feeling of suicide ect need expert help... Good luck and I hope he becomes a member here himself, maybe he will make some good new friends who can help support him through an obviously hard time.

**zlemi** · 12-21-2006, 12:37 PM

he actually has his second apt. with a therapist, so we are on the right track. I am talking to him and am going to see if I can get him here to maybe get some support or questions answered. I'm sure I have not stated properly what exactly he is doing.

**Booz** · 12-21-2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by zlemi

he actually has his second apt. with a therapist, so we are on the right track. I am talking to him and am going to see if I can get him here to maybe get some support or questions answered. I'm sure I have not stated properly what exactly he is doing.

your best bet would be to get him on here and then we can find out exactly what he has been doing,which will help us 2 help him better..................

**zlemi** · 12-21-2006, 01:05 PM

Hey guys, girls. This is ZLEMI's husband, let me start by thanking everyone for being so nice to my wife. Now let me clarify a few things and give you my history.

I am a former member of the ******** board, have not been there in about a year but my history lies there. Yes, I have been on for 3 years, Testosterone only with an occasional dbol and Winstrol thrown in throughout that time. I am married with 5 kids and I am 40 years old. I started a plan 3 years ago that has a lot of contraversy to it, staying on at low dose with increaseses every 4 months. The low doses were "maintainance" doses of 250mg of Test, sometimes Sustenon, Omnadren and other times Enanthate and Cyp. My theory was that I could avoid major side effects by slow and steady gains. I do not beleive in the on, off,on off thing because it just drives your body crazy. I managed to avoid strech marks, thinning hair, shrunken nuts and a few other things but doing this. Long term, 250 shots for 3 months then 500mg shots for 2 months and so forth. Never really comming off but toning it down every few months then back-up again. Thing is I have never taken more then 500mg a week, never. I started at 175lbs 3 years ago and gained very slowly for up to 1 year were I was at 210. I am at 200 today. Slow gains that will stick (I hope). I know alot of guys are agianst this untraditional method but it did work for me. Self ministered HRT if you will staying away from toxic doses. I have taken Clomid before but it turned me into a 10 year old girl mentally, I have also kept my ancillary's around like Nolvadex , 20mg every day just in case.

Everthing in my plan was sort of working but I have been inconsistent with shots this whole year, still taking a mere 250 week but I would skip weeks at a time due to busy schedule at home and work and travel. I have managed to keep most of my muscle and I attribute that to the slow gains. I really think my mind is getting waked because of my inconsistent shots, I never get the levels steady, never. So, here it is, I want to come off but it has been so long and I am 40 years old and dont want to deal with a full blown come down.

Dont want to keep writing too much so feel free to give me your thoughts. Thanks.

I beleive

RA · 12-21-2006, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by zlemi

Hey guys, girls. This is ZLEMI's husband, let me start by thanking everyone for being so nice to my wife. Now let me clarify a few things and give you my history.

I am a former member of the ******** board, have not been there in about a year but my history lies there. Yes, I have been on for 3 years, Testosterone only with an occasional dbol and Winstrol thrown in throughout that time. I am married with 5 kids and I am 40 years old. I started a plan 3 years ago that has a lot of contraversy to it, staying on at low dose with increaseses every 4 months. The low doses were "maintainance" doses of 250mg of Test, sometimes Sustenon, Omnadren and other times Enanthate and Cyp. My theory was that I could avoid major side effects by slow and steady gains. I do not beleive in the on, off,on off thing because it just drives your body crazy. I managed to avoid strech marks, thinning hair, shrunken nuts and a few other things but doing this. Long term, 250 shots for 3 months then 500mg shots for 2 months and so forth. Never really comming off but toning it down every few months then back-up again. Thing is I have never taken more then 500mg a week, never. I started at 175lbs 3 years ago and gained very slowly for up to 1 year were I was at 210. I am at 200 today. Slow gains that will stick (I hope). I know alot of guys are agianst this untraditional method but it did work for me. Self ministered HRT if you will staying away from toxic doses. I have taken Clomid before but it turned me into a 10 year old girl mentally, I have also kept my ancillary's around like Nolvadex , 20mg every day just in case.

Everthing in my plan was sort of working but I have been inconsistent with shots this whole year, still taking a mere 250 week but I would skip weeks at a time due to busy schedule at home and work and travel. I have managed to keep most of my muscle and I attribute that to the slow gains. I really think my mind is getting waked because of my inconsistent shots, I never get the levels steady, never. So, here it is, I want to come off but it has been so long and I am 40 years old and dont want to deal with a full blown come down.

Dont want to keep writing too much so feel free to give me your thoughts. Thanks.

I beleive

Probably the best route is do a full pct of hcg /clomid/nolva. Im really down while coming off also but its just something that you have to fight through and realize its going to get better. If thats not working you might need an anti-depressant thrown in.

**magic32** · 12-21-2006, 01:19 PM

You sound rather knowledgeable, but look into AI’s for your cruising, not SERMS.

Also, I see you’ve neglected to address your wife’s concerns:

I have recently found out that he has been suicidal and many other things are going on with him. Many things I can see, like aggression, mania, etc. We have 5 small children and he is a good person, but our lives are really suffering.

What say you?

M.

**taiboxa** · 12-21-2006, 01:21 PM

1 word
ENDOCRINOLOGIST

if that doesnt help

2nd word
PSYCOLOGIST
goodluck

ur comming to a board for advice on a problem that a professional should be addressing.
seriously go se a professional in the medical field

**mickdiesel** · 12-21-2006, 01:22 PM

yeah wow I guess I missed the three years thing

***G-1000*** · 12-21-2006, 01:26 PM

No mater what if your shut down it's going to take a little bit of time before you natty get back up. This is some thing your just going to have to deal with and work throw. The nice thing is you have full support from your wife. I would also advise thet you keep seeing the therapist as well.

Not know how shut down you are and how long is makes it hard for us to advise pct. But in your case i would go strong. This is how i would run it.

stay one the test that your running for 2 more weeks. Keep the dose very low like 200mg week.

Start hcg now at 2000iu 2 times a week for 2.5 weeks. That is a total of 10000iu. Then stop your test injection. I think you said your on test-e . So if that is the case start noly at 20mg day on the day of the last injection.

Now in 14 days you need to up the dose of nolv to 50mg and start clomid. I would run the clomid 300mg 200mg 200mg 100mg 100mg 100mg 50mg---------. for a total of 2 weeks.

Then i would run trib at 3g a day for 2 weeks after the clomi. also when your done with the clomid i would drop the nolv to 20mg day when running with teh trib. run that for 2 more weeks.

**SS1476** · 12-21-2006, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by zlemi

Hey guys, girls. This is ZLEMI's husband, let me start by thanking everyone for being so nice to my wife. Now let me clarify a few things and give you my history.

I am a former member of the ******** board, have not been there in about a year but my history lies there. Yes, I have been on for 3 years, Testosterone only with an occasional dbol and Winstrol thrown in throughout that time. I am married with 5 kids and I am 40 years old. I started a plan 3 years ago that has a lot of contraversy to it, staying on at low dose with increaseses every 4 months. The low doses were "maintainance" doses of 250mg of Test, sometimes Sustenon, Omnadren and other times Enanthate and Cyp. My theory was that I could avoid major side effects by slow and steady gains. I do not beleive in the on, off,on off thing because it just drives your body crazy. I managed to avoid strech marks, thinning hair, shrunken nuts and a few other things but doing this. Long term, 250 shots for 3 months then 500mg shots for 2 months and so forth. Never really comming off but toning it down every few months then back-up again. Thing is I have never taken more then 500mg a week, never. I started at 175lbs 3 years ago and gained very slowly for up to 1 year were I was at 210. I am at 200 today. Slow gains that will stick (I hope). I know alot of guys are agianst this untraditional method but it did work for me. Self ministered HRT if you will staying away from toxic doses. I have taken Clomid before but it turned me into a 10 year old girl mentally, I have also kept my ancillary's around like Nolvadex , 20mg every day just in case.

Everthing in my plan was sort of working but I have been inconsistent with shots this whole year, still taking a mere 250 week but I would skip weeks at a time due to busy schedule at home and work and travel. I have managed to keep most of my muscle and I attribute that to the slow gains. I really think my mind is getting waked because of my inconsistent shots, I never get the levels steady, never. So, here it is, I want to come off but it has been so long and I am 40 years old and dont want to deal with a full blown come down.

Dont want to keep writing too much so feel free to give me your thoughts. Thanks.

I beleive

Welcome Bro,good caring woman you have there

There's alot of good advice,not to parrot..but blood
work should really be done.If you have been shooting
different ester tests,then you should know that more
frequent shots than once a week is needed for stable
blood levels.Good luck,Im sure you'lll get through this.

EDIT: If it were me,I would follow G's advice above,for sure.

**zlemi** · 12-21-2006, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by magic32

You sound rather knowledgeable, but look into AI’s for your cruising, not SERMS.

Also, I see you’ve neglected to address your wife’s concerns:

What say you?

M.

Yes, I have major mood swings (yelling alot) and I did dance with death a couple of times at my lowest point. I was really depressed and I thought I was unhappy with my life but I am not. I will not allow that to happen again. I have purchased some PCT gear and will do 2 things:

Stabilize my shots back to how they should be so I can better control my feelings.

Start the PCT process while decreasing from 250 to 200 to 100 then nothing. Its been too long for me to just stop, my life would fall apart if I did that. I would also be very afraid of the depression that would kick in. I am going to assume since my nuts are not shrunk that maybe I am not fully shut down? One could hope.

**kynetguy** · 12-21-2006, 02:01 PM

G's advice for your PCT is solid. Definately follow it. You obviously have a good woman there and should be thankful for that. With the knowledge here, the bros should be able to get you on point with a good PCT.

Your case will be especially difficult because of the length of time.

AIs are solid info to. You get the 10 y/o girl feeling because estrogen becomes the dominate homone if you aren't blocking it. Your inability to deal with stress can be directly related to test levels. One of the many marvelous things test does in the male is help you cope with stress. The inability to cope with stress will definately make you moody.

DO get bloodwork. I would specifically be interested in you RBC. I would guess that its off the charts. Something donating some blood would bring down. Its free and it does a good deed as well.

**magic32** · 12-21-2006, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by zlemi

Yes, I have major mood swings (yelling alot) and I did dance with death a couple of times at my lowest point. I was really depressed and I thought I was unhappy with my life but I am not. I will not allow that to happen again. I have purchased some PCT gear and will do 2 things:

Stabilize my shots back to how they should be so I can better control my feelings.

Start the PCT process while decreasing from 250 to 200 to 100 then nothing. Its been too long for me to just stop, my life would fall apart if I did that. I would also be very afraid of the depression that would kick in. I am going to assume since my nuts are not shrunk that maybe I am not fully shut down? One could hope.

I'm glad you realize how you were acting, many don't. Anyway, that sounds like a good plan. Don't start PCT until after you've finished with gear altogether though.

M.

**kimag2** · 12-21-2006, 02:47 PM

Hi , i am going some what the same thing has him, but it was to late to save my family, you are the one that keep him in line even if it don’t show. for anti depressant he can be on it for more than 5 years , i am been on them for more than 2 years and she came one day and said i cant take it no more and left , well i can tell you this i was happy to be in the hospital it save me and my kids , now i am back in the gym 7 times a week and love every minute of it .The # one thing is talk talk talk , try to find a day that he is in a good mood and talk ,don’t fight or scream, i know its hard but we you love some one anything is possible. Go with him to see Doc and tell everything and tell him not to hide nothing its not worth loosing a family. I know.

kimag