Is rubbing alcohol same as hydrogen peroxide

[zk7]

Is rubbing alcohol same as hydrogen peroxide or vice versa

[zk7]

Is it better to use Hydrogen Peroxide when injecting Test or using Rubbing alcohol? I read that both are Anti Septics?

[italianplayboy09]

Is rubbing alcohol same as hydrogen peroxide or vice versa

youre kidding right

[evil pepsi]

not even close. peroxide is h2o2, or water with an extra oxygen molecule...

[Maldorf]

I think youre asking which to use to clean the injection site and bottle top before injection? Use rubbing alcohol, aka isopropyl alcohol. No the 2 arent the same!

[zk7]

I always thought Hydrogen Peroxide was same as Rubbing Alcohol in terms both being desinfectant / anti septics. I used Hydrogen Peroxide to clean the site but after reading online (1 hour after inject) i realized maybe i shoulda used rubbing alcohol, so i went and put some rubbing alcohol as well on the site to desinfect.

Hope no problem gonna occur.

[Showdown]

Quick way to see the difference is to inject hydrogen peroxide into a tick and alcohol into a tick,and see what happens when blood combines with hydrogen peroxide!(Cruel,but fun to do...)

[Maldorf]

shouldnt cause any problems really, but alcohol is the standard for such practice. If you get an injection at the doctors they will use an alcohol prep pad. You can buy those at the grocery, kinda nice to have.

[BigTurk]

Hydrogen peroxide only kills the bacteria that can not process oxygen thus hydrogen peroxide does not kill any of the bacteria that is on your skin.

[zk7]

Well all i know is that in the future I will be more ready. Gonna have alcohol swabs on hand , proper kit etcc.

I thought I was ready with Hydrogen Peroxide and proper sanitary techniques , cleaning my hands before starting etc.. Anyway

Do any of you guys have problems injecting in your homes? For those who still live with their parents or for those who live with girlfriends or relative, whom don't know you juice and whom you do not want them to know that you juice.

I was all jittery injecting , lots of ppl in the house etcc heh

[zk7]

By the way, at first when i did my inject into my bicep, i got this small lump, looked like a lump you get when someone punches you in the face or head. But it deflated and cool down and now its almost gone. Is that common to get ocasional lumps etc?

[rhino1]

You shouldn't be using AAS if you don't know the difference between H2O2 and ETOH. LOL

[perfectbeast2001]

By the way, at first when i did my inject into my bicep, i got this small lump, looked like a lump you get when someone punches you in the face or head. But it deflated and cool down and now its almost gone. Is that common to get ocasional lumps etc?

yes. Do make sure you have inserted needle deep enough into muscle as that lump may be oil pooling in the tussue above the muscle which is not desirable. Massage site to reduce lump and dissipate oil

[MuscleScience]

Hydrogen peroxide only kills the bacteria that can not process oxygen thus hydrogen peroxide does not kill any of the bacteria that is on your skin.

Yes it does,

Both rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide kill bacteria and both are appropriate for cleaning a site. However if you expose hydrogen peroxide to large amounts of blood or body fluid it is converted to hydrogen and water by the enzyme called catalase. In other words when you put hydrogen peroxide on your cuts and it bubbles it doesnt mean that the bacteria cells are popping it simple means that your blood is converting the H202 into the compounds as described. However if you use 90% rubbing alcohol it is not as effective as an disinfectant as 70% because there isnt enough water content to cause the alcohol to destroy the cell wall of the bacteria.

[newbrew]

You shouldn't be using AAS if you don't know the difference between H2O2 and ETOH. LOL

The irony here is astouding.

He was asking about rubbing alcohol, not ETOH, there is a difference. If there wasnt, you could drink rubbing alcohol with no fear of harm. ETOH is ethyl alcohol (aka ethonol), while rubbing alcohol often is a mixture which includes ethyl alcohol, methyl isobutyl ketone, acetone, etc (depending on which type and brand).

And I think you meant to say C2H5OH, rather than ETOH, assuming we are going to cite chemical formulas, rather than abbreviations.

[rhino1]

The irony here is astouding.

He was asking about rubbing alcohol, not ETOH, there is a difference. If there wasnt, you could drink rubbing alcohol with no fear of harm. ETOH is ethyl alcohol (aka ethonol), while rubbing alcohol often is a mixture which includes ethyl alcohol, methyl isobutyl ketone, acetone, etc (depending on which type and brand).

And I think you meant to say C2H5OH, rather than ETOH, assuming we are going to cite chemical formulas, rather than abbreviations.

Hey abbreviation nazi.....i was in a hurry....does it matter that much....he thinks alcohol and h202 are the same.


besides.....none of the above are the most effective antiseptic so who cares....id inject dirty before using h202....h202 is vastly known for causing cellular breakdown.

BTW

The most effective antiseptic is

Chloraprep(Chlorhexidine gluconate 2%/Isopropyl alcohol 70%)

Its what is used for surgery...i would suggest using that....if you can get your hands on it.....

If you use rubbing alcohol you can still get a mean abcess....it doesn't kill all of the bacteria.

Another cheaper solution is rubbing alcohol and betadine.

[newbrew]

Hey abbreviation nazi.....i was in a hurry....does it matter that much....he thinks alcohol and h202 are the same.

I was just joshing you. My response really had no real care towards the chemistry, but rather the irony surrounding your suggestion that he is too dumb to use AAS.

[rhino1]

I guess if he is too dumb to not know the difference than I was rather stupid to use that abbreviation.....Its a RN thing.....I work in an ER. Plus boss was walking by.

[newbrew]

Oh yea, if we are speaking of prepping a site for IM injection, using antiseptics to 'sterilze' the area is virtually worthless. You're better off studying voodoo. If its ever even used in the medical field, its used more to calm the patients false expectations more than anything else.

Prepping for an IV injection, however, requires such.

[newbrew]

I guess if he is too dumb to not know the difference than I was rather stupid to use that abbreviation.....Its a RN thing.....I work in an ER. Plus boss was walking by.

When we use ETOH in the medical field, its usually used in reference to a patients condition...which is why it caught my eye in the 1st place.

You're not more worried about the big "ANABOLIC STEROIDS " banner at the top of this screen than you are about correct semantics? lol

[rhino1]

Oh yea, if we are speaking of prepping a site for IM injection, using antiseptics to 'sterilze' the area is virtually worthless. You're better off studying voodoo. If its ever even used in the medical field, its used more to calm the patients false expectations more than anything else.

Prepping for an IV injection, however, requires such.

LOL yea right!

most patients are under anesthesia when they prep the surgical site.

It is usefull in all procedures where the skin is breeched.

Just had a guy come in that juices with a horrible intramuscular abcess....


He was saying....BUT I USE ALCOHOL all the time.....


Im not taking the chance.....he will probably have to have portions of the muscle taken out...

[newbrew]

LOL yea right!

most patients are under anesthesia when they prep the surgical site.

It is usefull in all procedures where the skin is breeched.

Just had a guy come in that juices with a horrible intramuscular abcess....


He was saying....BUT I USE ALCOHOL all the time.....


Im not taking the chance.....he will probably have to have portions of the muscle taken out...

Yes they are, however, I wasnt speaking of surgery. I was speaking of IM injections.

Trust me, if proper hygiene is practiced, using swabs on your skin is pretty much a waste. If it makes you feel warm and cozy inside, sure, keep doing it. They are cheap and it wont cause any harm. If you prefer to know thruth, do some research on the subject. I imagine I could find at least a dozen studies that show using swabs to prep for an IM injection have no effect in reducing possibility of infection.

You can't deduct improper prepping simply due to an infection. It's much more likely (and probably so) the actual gear itself caused the infection. Perhaps he was using dirty needles.

[newbrew]

One thing to ponder regarding that. The air you introduce into the syringe is far more likely to contaminate you.

There was recently a study of diabetics who are in the habit of injecting themselves THROUGH THEIR CLOTHING. Result: generally not a problem. For IM and SQ injections of sterile product into non-immune compromised people, most of the stuff we do with alcohol swabs is voodoo. It doesn't do much good on the skin. And if it does any good at the bottle, it's in preventing as much contamination of multidose vials for the NEXT time, days later. Which is a good reason why multidose vials should either not be used at all, or else be entirely used on the same day.

[rhino1]

He told me his UGL....I seriously doubt it was that....and no he wasn't re using his syringes or pins.

Also....say you work in a hospital....dispite "these studies" you go ahead and give that im shot without aseptic technique.....then he gets a abcess....looses his leg....and he testifies you didnt use alcohol to sterilize the site....

GUESS WHO IS AT FAULT!!!

[kynetguy]

Yes they are, however, I wasnt speaking of surgery. I was speaking of IM injections.

Trust me, if proper hygiene is practiced, using swabs on your skin is pretty much a waste. If it makes you feel warm and cozy inside, sure, keep doing it. They are cheap and it wont cause any harm. If you prefer to know thruth, do some research on the subject. I imagine I could find at least a dozen studies that show using swabs to prep for an IM injection have no effect in reducing possibility of infection.

You can't deduct improper prepping simply due to an infection. It's much more likely (and probably so) the actual gear itself caused the infection. Perhaps he was using dirty needles.

Are you suggesting that wiping the IM Inj site with alcohol is not medically necesary to prevent infection or abcess?

If so, please state your sources for information and show us where to read the report/article/information that has you believing this, because my knowledge and training has taught me otherwise and I personally think that not using alcohol or other antiseptic to wipe off the vial and the inj site would be rather ****ing retarded.

And how does preping for an IV (assuming you are not refering to a deep line/arterial line) require any more or less prep than an IM? Just because the endpoint of the needle is in a vein, does not mean you are any less exposed to bateria, etc. Your threat to clean or sterile techniqie is still the air and skin.

Which in this case we are refering to clean technique, not sterile, which is not needed for either IV or IM...or Subq for that matter.

[newbrew]

Are you suggesting that wiping the IM Inj site with alcohol is not medically necesary to prevent infection or abcess?

If so, please state your sources for information and show us where to read the report/article/information that has you believing this, because my knowledge and training has taught me otherwise and I personally think that not using alcohol or other antiseptic to wipe off the vial and the inj site would be rather ****ing retarded.

And how does preping for an IV (assuming you are not refering to a deep line/arterial line) require any more or less prep than an IM? Just because the endpoint of the needle is in a vein, does not mean you are any less exposed to bateria, etc. Your threat to clean or sterile techniqie is still the air and skin.

Which in this case we are refering to clean technique, not sterile, which is not needed for either IV or IM...or Subq for that matter.

Previous studies suggest that such cleansing is not always necessary and that the lack of skin preparation does not result in infections (Dann 1969, Koivisto and Felig 1978). Some trusts now accept that, if the patient is physically clean and the nurse maintains a high standard of hand hygiene and asepsis during the procedure, skin disinfection before an IM injection is not necessary. If skin disinfection is practised, the skin should be cleaned with an alcohol swab for 30 seconds, and then allowed to dry for at least 30 seconds, otherwise it is ineffective (Simmonds 1983). Additionally, if the injection is given before the skin dries, not only does it increase pain for the patient, as the needle entry will make the site sting, the bacteria are not rendered inactive and may be inoculated into the injection site (Springhouse Corporation 1993).” [4]


References
1. NLH Q & A Service. What skin preparations if any is recommended when taking blood or giving an injection. Posted 4th July 2005. (http://www.clinicalanswers.nhs.uk/in...?question=800).
2. Cullen B. Skin disinfection prior to intradermal, subcutaneous and intramuscular injection administration. 2004. (http://www.show.scot.nhs.uk/scieh/in...w_0800604.pdf).
3. Royal College of Nursing. Position statement on injection technique. March 2002. (http://www.rcn.org.uk/publications/p...technique.pdf).
4. Workhouse B. Safe injection techniques. Nursing Standard 13(39):47-53. (http://www.nursing-standard.co.uk/ar...3w39p4753.pdf).

[newbrew]

Thats speaking of inconsistancies with the practice of swabbing. I can google it all day, but so can you. Ill try to find the in depth study that I read awhile back.

I'm not saying you shouldnt practice it, it's probably better as a general rule of thumb. I know for myself, its a worthless step.

[kynetguy]

Just had a guy come in that juices with a horrible intramuscular abcess....


He was saying....BUT I USE ALCOHOL all the time.....


Im not taking the chance.....he will probably have to have portions of the muscle taken out...

Dirty injection technique is only one of several causes for an abcess. I know in the medical field, they tech that unclean technique can cause abcesses. Which is true. But when dealing with gear, there are a multitude of other things which cause them that is not directly related to the injection itself.

1) Unsterile gear - could be because there was not enough Benzyl Alcohol in it. (rarely the case)
2) Unsterile gear - caused by the gear not sitting long enough before use to become sterile.
3) Unfiltered or poorly filtered gear - could contain particulate matter that got into the depot and once the oil was absorbed created an abcess.
4) If the gear came from a sachet, it is possible to pick up a small sliver of the package and inject it into yourself. Which is why sachet gear should always be filtered into a sterile vial.

Basically foriegn bodies or bacteria could cause an abcess. And neither are neccesarily related to injection technique.

[rhino1]

DUDE what if you have Methacillan Resistant Staphalococus Aureus or Vancomycin Resistant Enterococci on your skin?????


If you dont use alcohol...or betadine or whatever you are up shit creek.

Yea you go right ahead and do that.....you will be on IV antibiotics for 6 months!!!!

Someone slap him...

OK NOW BYE BYE THEN

[rhino1]

Previous studies suggest that such cleansing is not always necessary and that the lack of skin preparation does not result in infections (Dann 1969, Koivisto and Felig 1978). Some trusts now accept that, if the patient is physically clean and the nurse maintains a high standard of hand hygiene and asepsis during the procedure, skin disinfection before an IM injection is not necessary. If skin disinfection is practised, the skin should be cleaned with an alcohol swab for 30 seconds, and then allowed to dry for at least 30 seconds, otherwise it is ineffective (Simmonds 1983). Additionally, if the injection is given before the skin dries, not only does it increase pain for the patient, as the needle entry will make the site sting, the bacteria are not rendered inactive and may be inoculated into the injection site (Springhouse Corporation 1993).” [4]


References
1. NLH Q & A Service. What skin preparations if any is recommended when taking blood or giving an injection. Posted 4th July 2005. (http://www.clinicalanswers.nhs.uk/in...?question=800).
2. Cullen B. Skin disinfection prior to intradermal, subcutaneous and intramuscular injection administration. 2004. (http://www.show.scot.nhs.uk/scieh/in...w_0800604.pdf).
3. Royal College of Nursing. Position statement on injection technique. March 2002. (http://www.rcn.org.uk/publications/p...technique.pdf).
4. Workhouse B. Safe injection techniques. Nursing Standard 13(39):47-53. (http://www.nursing-standard.co.uk/ar...3w39p4753.pdf).

LOL it doesn't say DONT USE IT.....like you say....it says one must wait 30 seconds for it to be effective.....which means....YEA IT WORKS IT REALLY REALLY WORKS

[kynetguy]

Thats speaking of inconsistancies with the practice of swabbing. I can google it all day, but so can you. Ill try to find the in depth study that I read awhile back.

I'm not saying you shouldnt practice it, it's probably better as a general rule of thumb. I know for myself, its a worthless step.

I feel a Visa™ commercial . . .

12 weeks worth of gear and PCT $500
1 year Gym membership: $600
Alcohol Prep Pad: 2 cents.

Peace of mind that some whacko UK doctor wont cut out have of your 5 years of gains because you are a cheap ass lazy bastard....priceless.

I guess if I too had microscopic RN vision and could see that I didn't have any contaiminates or micro organism on my skin, I would follow your idea. But until then, I am spending 2 cents for that peace of mind.

Good luck with the abcesses/infections.

[kynetguy]

DUDE what if you have Methacillan Resistant Staphalococus Aureus or Vancomycin Resistant Enterococci on your skin?????


If you dont use alcohol...or betadine or whatever you are up shit creek.

Yea you go right ahead and do that.....you will be on IV antibiotics for 6 months!!!!

Someone slap him...

OK NOW BYE BYE THEN

ooo, I hadn't even thought as deep as an MRSA. . .eeek. I think I will keep spending $4 for 200 alcohol preps and a few bucks for my anti-bacterial soap I wash my hands with before hand.

[newbrew]

LOL it doesn't say DONT USE IT.....like you say....it says one must wait 30 seconds for it to be effective.....which means....YEA IT WORKS IT REALLY REALLY WORKS

I never said that it wouldnt sterilize your skin now did I?

What I said and conveyed that it has little to no effect in practice, which from my studying, is true.

What it didnt say (and that you're trying to convey) is that it reduces INFECTION. I havent read any sufficient amount of evidence that shows swabbing before an IM (and yes, specifically IM) statistically reduces infections.

[rhino1]

Keep in mind.....

Cost of antibiotics for 6 months.....100,000$

Depends on what you value or what you want to spend your money on....

I have better things lol

[kynetguy]

I never said that it wouldnt sterilize your skin now did I?

What I said and conveyed that it has little to no effect in practice, which from my studying, is true.

What it didnt say (and that you're trying to convey) is that it reduces INFECTION. I havent read any sufficient amount of evidence that shows swabbing before an IM (and yes, specifically IM) statistically reduces infections.

In practice I bet you are right. because most people do not do it properly. So you could be right. When was the last time you, or any other nurse, doctor, paramedit, CMA, whatever. . .actually swabbed for 30 seconds and let it dry for 30.


I rest my case.

[rhino1]

NEWBREW-what is your arguement????

Make up your mind...

[evil pepsi]

I never said that it wouldnt sterilize your skin now did I?

What I said and conveyed that it has little to no effect in practice, which from my studying, is true.

What it didnt say (and that you're trying to convey) is that it reduces INFECTION. I havent read any sufficient amount of evidence that shows swabbing before an IM (and yes, specifically IM) statistically reduces infections.

staph aureus and staph epi live and thrive on the skin. by not swabbing prior, you can actually drive them into the skin with injection. the injection needs to be in a sterile area, which is why the skin is swabbed, and the alcohol is allowed to dry.
thats textbook procedure...

[newbrew]

So what is your arguement????

Make up your mind...

That use of alcohol swabs are generally useless in preventing infections that arrise from IM injections.

That has been my stance from the beginning. If you are reading anything else, I either made a mistake in the way I have been explaining my position, or you are having a rough time with reading comprehension. Either is very possible.

[newbrew]

In practice I bet you are right. because most people do not do it properly. So you could be right. When was the last time you, or any other nurse, doctor, paramedit, CMA, whatever. . .actually swabbed for 30 seconds and let it dry for 30.


I rest my case.

Yep, exactly. Now you and I are seeing eye to eye. This has been my argument from the beginning. "Textbook" and real life are 2 very different scenarios. This is why studies are performed, even though the evidence already exists.

I am a Firefighter/Paramedic and have my BSN. I work in the hospital setting on my days off from the fire dept. I can say with almost 100% certainty that I have never whitnessed it done in an appropiate way that would actually make it effective.

[rhino1]

I am an RN and I do it right EVERY TIME....I value my license.