Some Observations

**flkpm** · 01-07-2007, 01:34 PM

Hi all. I've been lurking on these boards for a few months now and I'd just like to make a little observation that you can agree or disagree with. I'm a guy in my late 20's who has trained for the Olympics in swimming, was in the SEAL seletion program for some time and am now training for professional boxing. None of those endeavors are exactly known for benefiting from steroids and I have never used AAS myself nor plan to, but I'm familar with elite level fitness and conditioning even though it is not size/mass/strength related.

With that said, one thing I've noticed on these boards is that although there are apparently some very elite competitors on this board who benefit from AAS usage in their respective fields (bodybuilding, powerlifting, ect), it seems that there are much more less accomplished athletes on these boards who feel that they benefit just as much from AAS as do the elite guys. I tend to disagree with these less accomplished guys and believe they would be much better off forgoing AAS use until they reached a level where further progress would be dependent upon AAS (which is a very high level to obtain). The way I see it on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most optimal naturally achieved fitness/size/strength/conditioning level it makes no sense to use AAS if you are at 2 or 3 or even 7 or 8. I think AAS should only come into play if after years and years of very hard work you finally get to a 10 and then you say to yourself, "Should I now use AAS and incur all the benefits and risks that go with it to achieve the un-natural 12 or 13?" Fortunately for me I have always pursued sports such as swimming, skiing, and boxing which are much more technique and stamina based where you can be the best without having to come to that dilemma, but I believe there are many on these boards who feel that they have to use AAS much much too soon in their athletic developement in order to progress further, even if it is in a sport like bodybuilding or power lifting where the AAS question does EVENTUALLY come into play at some point. But that point is a very very high point and I think most would be much better off worrying about getting to that point how you are suppose to then prematurely engaging in potentially damaging AAS usage. Anyways those are just my thoughts on the matter. You can disagree, but from someone who has been around Olympic medalists his whole life I think it is pretty solid advice even though most here probably know more then me about bodybuilding/powerlifting/steroids/ect.

**shrpskn** · 01-07-2007, 03:20 PM

First of all, welcome to AR...

Second, I have to agree with your observation...it is a well established fact that many people, particularily teens, get into AAS use with either minimal or inadequate knowledge on the subject or they get into the use of AAS before they have reached their natty threshold.

I believe many have been saved from making the wrong decision of entering the world of AAS use prematurely by having access to boards such as this one.

I have seen many young guys come on here wanting to dive in head first and with the right encouragement and/or guidance, they were steered away from making this costly mistake.

This is one reason why I think boards like this are invaluable...if we didn't have resources such as this, I think there would be alot more negative statistics out there.

Good post flkpm.

-SS

**Tbone1975** · 01-07-2007, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by flkpm

Hi all. I've been lurking on these boards for a few months now and I'd just like to make a little observation that you can agree or disagree with. I'm a guy in my late 20's who has trained for the Olympics in swimming, was in the SEAL seletion program for some time and am now training for professional boxing. None of those endeavors are exactly known for benefiting from steroids and I have never used AAS myself nor plan to, but I'm familar with elite level fitness and conditioning even though it is not size/mass/strength related.

With that said, one thing I've noticed on these boards is that although there are apparently some very elite competitors on this board who benefit from AAS usage in their respective fields (bodybuilding, powerlifting, ect), it seems that there are much more less accomplished athletes on these boards who feel that they benefit just as much from AAS as do the elite guys. I tend to disagree with these less accomplished guys and believe they would be much better off forgoing AAS use until they reached a level where further progress would be dependent upon AAS (which is a very high level to obtain). The way I see it on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most optimal naturally achieved fitness/size/strength/conditioning level it makes no sense to use AAS if you are at 2 or 3 or even 7 or 8. I think AAS should only come into play if after years and years of very hard work you finally get to a 10 and then you say to yourself, "Should I now use AAS and incur all the benefits and risks that go with it to achieve the un-natural 12 or 13?" Fortunately for me I have always pursued sports such as swimming, skiing, and boxing which are much more technique and stamina based where you can be the best without having to come to that dilemma, but I believe there are many on these boards who feel that they have to use AAS much much too soon in their athletic developement in order to progress further, even if it is in a sport like bodybuilding or power lifting where the AAS question does EVENTUALLY come into play at some point. But that point is a very very high point and I think most would be much better off worrying about getting to that point how you are suppose to then prematurely engaging in potentially damaging AAS usage. Anyways those are just my thoughts on the matter. You can disagree, but from someone who has been around Olympic medalists his whole life I think it is pretty solid advice even though most here probably know more then me about bodybuilding/powerlifting/steroids/ect.

I agree with a lot of what you said above. I did my first at age 30. That is a bit too late though. At the gym I work out at, there guys in their early twenties on 'em, but the catch is, they are weak as f*ck because they had no base to begin with. We're talking about guys benching 225 8 times, that are on the sauce! Pathetic. Not big either. One guy I'm thinking of has to be about 5'8 and I heard him say he's a 180 pounds. Not ripped either. So you were a Navy Seal? Those guys are pretty ate up. I was in the AF and went out for the pararescue special forces division. I passed the initial test but I couldn't continue on to the 10 week pipeline because my vision uncorrected was 20/400 LOL. It has to be 20/100 or better to be a PJ.

**THE PUMP** · 01-07-2007, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by flkpm

Hi all. I've been lurking on these boards for a few months now and I'd just like to make a little observation that you can agree or disagree with. I'm a guy in my late 20's who has trained for the Olympics in swimming, was in the SEAL seletion program for some time and am now training for professional boxing. None of those endeavors are exactly known for benefiting from steroids and I have never used AAS myself nor plan to, but I'm familar with elite level fitness and conditioning even though it is not size/mass/strength related.

With that said, one thing I've noticed on these boards is that although there are apparently some very elite competitors on this board who benefit from AAS usage in their respective fields (bodybuilding, powerlifting, ect), it seems that there are much more less accomplished athletes on these boards who feel that they benefit just as much from AAS as do the elite guys. I tend to disagree with these less accomplished guys and believe they would be much better off forgoing AAS use until they reached a level where further progress would be dependent upon AAS (which is a very high level to obtain). The way I see it on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most optimal naturally achieved fitness/size/strength/conditioning level it makes no sense to use AAS if you are at 2 or 3 or even 7 or 8. I think AAS should only come into play if after years and years of very hard work you finally get to a 10 and then you say to yourself, "Should I now use AAS and incur all the benefits and risks that go with it to achieve the un-natural 12 or 13?" Fortunately for me I have always pursued sports such as swimming, skiing, and boxing which are much more technique and stamina based where you can be the best without having to come to that dilemma, but I believe there are many on these boards who feel that they have to use AAS much much too soon in their athletic developement in order to progress further, even if it is in a sport like bodybuilding or power lifting where the AAS question does EVENTUALLY come into play at some point. But that point is a very very high point and I think most would be much better off worrying about getting to that point how you are suppose to then prematurely engaging in potentially damaging AAS usage. Anyways those are just my thoughts on the matter. You can disagree, but from someone who has been around Olympic medalists his whole life I think it is pretty solid advice even though most here probably know more then me about bodybuilding/powerlifting/steroids/ect.

agree

**Hephens** · 01-07-2007, 05:55 PM

I have yo agree aswell, but you can keep gaining naturaly even past a high level if you use everything in the book? AAS drugs is just a cheat.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 01-07-2007, 05:58 PM

agree. Pretty much links into the new article I just wrote in my sig "things to consider". Although I would add I was guilty of using AS at a young age with insuffcient diet or training as I was ignorant and listened to ignorant peoples advice. If I had access to a forum like this I may have been more sensible.

**THE PUMP** · 01-07-2007, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

agree. Pretty much links into the new article I just wrote in my sig "things to consider". Although I would add I was guilty of using AS at a young age with insuffcient diet or training as I was ignorant and listened to ignorant peoples advice. If I had access to a forum like this I may have been more sensible.

i agree with i wish i had waited but onece you pop yea cnt stop.

**Tbone1975** · 01-07-2007, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Hephens

I have yo agree aswell, but you can keep gaining naturaly even past a high level if you use everything in the book? AAS drugs is just a cheat.

Pretty bold statement. Everyone is different but IMO you definately definately cannot achieve as high a level of muscular development naturally as you can with steroids . That is just my opinion. I agree that you can pretty much gain naturally for as long as you want, but after a while, at least with me, the gains were very slow. I always seemed to have a nice 5-maybe 10 pounds of muscle gained yearly but the strength gains were extremely slow yearly. And, you can think what you want of me, but I was a very very dedicated weight lifter, never missed workouts, ate well, always pushed myself, etc. I wanted more. Steroids took me to new levels without a doubt. What it all comes down to, is how bad you want it. Everyone is different. Nothing wrong with that. That's my opinion, and for some reason I felt obligated to say it LOL.

**pavlenko** · 01-07-2007, 07:09 PM

i did my 1st cycle WAYYYY before reaching my natty max and I am alittle depressed by all this talk but you know what in a way im glad I did it because it saved me soo much time gaining all that i did with AS and I wouldnt of looked as big as I do now. I feel as i can still stop after this 2nd cycle and go afew years natty and still make good gains which i might just do reading all this, makes me feel like i cheated, i guess im a cheater

**shrpskn** · 01-08-2007, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Hephens

AAS drugs is just a cheat.

You are wrong...and I find your statement rather redundant.

IMHO, AAS's are "tools" to be used at your disposal, in the event you feel you have reached your "natty threshold".
There is no doubt in my mind that I would not be even close to the level I am today had I not supplemented my disciplined diet and focused training regimen with AAS...

Unfortunately, many jump into the game too soon, either due to lack of knowledge on the subject, but more often than not, due to the fact that they do not have the patience to hit that "natty threshold" I speak of.
It is then, that I believe the use of AAS's become more of a "crutch", or as you say "cheating", than a "tool".

JMHO,

-ShrpSkn