liver problems

**shredzs** · 01-19-2007, 08:11 AM

who has had them and how much abuse did it take b4 you had them??
how did you find out??
r u ok now??

**mickdiesel** · 01-19-2007, 10:27 AM

bump

**longhorn814** · 01-19-2007, 03:00 PM

blood work is how you find out, personally myself and many others on here feel hepatoxicity gets blown way out of proportion. Ive had elevated liver values while on orals several times and always within a couple of weeks, they return to normal. For most people to cause major liver damage, you would have to run large amounts of oral steroids for long, long periods of time. 6 weeks on dbol , var, winny, or whatever may elevate your liver values, but you'll be fine after a couple of weeks off. The thing you should be more concerned with is how oral steroid affect your lipids values.

**daytrader** · 01-19-2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by longhorn814

blood work is how you find out, personally myself and many others on here feel hepatoxicity gets blown way out of proportion. Ive had elevated liver values while on orals several times and always within a couple of weeks, they return to normal. For most people to cause major liver damage, you would have to run large amounts of oral steroids for long, long periods of time. 6 weeks on dbol, var, winny, or whatever may elevate your liver values, but you'll be fine after a couple of weeks off. The thing you should be more concerned with is how oral steroid affect your lipids values.

Var doesnt elevate liver values like dbol and other orals...

**longhorn814** · 01-19-2007, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by daytrader

Var doesnt elevate liver values like dbol and other orals...

i beg to differ, my blood work says otherwise...any oral ive ever taken (var, dbol , winny, etc) elevates my liver values and lowers my HDL

***Alex*** · 01-19-2007, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by longhorn814

i beg to differ, my blood work says otherwise...any oral ive ever taken (var, dbol, winny, etc) elevates my liver values and lowers my HDL

agreed, I think var is light on liver is a bunch of crap.

**jk486994** · 01-19-2007, 05:11 PM

bump

**daytrader** · 01-19-2007, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by *Alex*

agreed, I think var is light on liver is a bunch of crap.

Could be... I dont know why people would make that up though... I should say my post, i hate to be a parrott.. So im just going off what many other Vets have said.. Id like to hear more input to that

**longhorn814** · 01-19-2007, 05:45 PM

From the profiles section:
"Although Anavar is an oral steroid , and has been alpha-alkylated to survive oral ingestion and the first pass through the liver, it’s still relatively mild in that respect too..., the unique chemical configuration of oxandrolone both confers a resistance to liver metabolism as well as noticable anabolic activity. It would also appear that Anavar appears not to exhibit the serious hepatotoxic effects (jaundice, cholestatic hepatitis, peliosis hepatis, hyperplasias and neoplasms) typically attributed to the C17alpha-alkylated AASs."

Regardless, you can see that it is designed to bypass the liver. Regadless it still puts extra stress on your liver. It may be a little less stressful for whatever reason, but it will still stress it and most likely elevate your values. IMO hepatoxicity is way exaggerated. You would most likely have to take large amounts of orals for extended periods of time to see any severe damage. 6-8 is nothing. Your liver is very resilient.

**Hellmaskbanned** · 01-19-2007, 05:46 PM

hell who cares about a liver ..you got another one............LOL

**ecivon** · 01-19-2007, 07:05 PM

When I was in the military I got a tainted blood transfusion in the field and got hepatitis c from it. I have done several cycles and I drink from time-to-time. And I'm not overly concerned about the effects of either on my liver. I can 'feel' when my liver values are climbing and make changes as necessary to keep it under control. Those elevating influences have always been more than from steroids and alcohol. However, I never take orals, just don't want more than necessary passing through my liver. I think the warnings on liver stressing should be observed, but they may be overstated as far as anabolics go.

The real danger to the liver lies in unsanitary habits when injecting steroids. Getting an infection from site injection is the one that will cause the most problems to the liver.

**RUI-Products** · 01-19-2007, 08:29 PM

Suma root is the best thing for regenerating the liver.

**Maldorf** · 01-19-2007, 10:12 PM

I know a guy that gave half of his liver to hi Mother because she had to have hers removed for some reason. He did just fine on the remaining liver he had, even cycled AAS. Not sure if he took many orals though, but I would be willing to guess that he did. The liver eventually grows back too.

**stupidhippo** · 01-20-2007, 10:00 AM

liver can regenerate.. the problem is more if fibrous tissue is formed in there.. cause that cannot reverse.. when liver is full of fibrous tissue (connective tissue) it means its cirhhotic.. so in some cases a very alrge portion of the liver can be removed and the liver will grow back to normal size... it all depends what kind of damage is done and what happens there..

**Alpha-Male** · 01-20-2007, 11:43 AM

milk thistle is more than adequate for protection/prevention...SAMe and R-LA is great for regeneration (a tad expensive though)...i don't think it's safe to tell people that hepatotoxicity is overrated, without knowing their lifestyle and any medical condition...yes, elevated levels are quite common, even on other meds (like the ones i take for my RA), and do usually return to normal after cessation...but it's still not something to shrug off...IMO, you shouldnt spend prolonged periods of time in the elevated range, for any labs...

**pavlenko** · 01-20-2007, 11:44 AM

thats crazy stuff, liver is important dont loose it

**KISAWA** · 01-24-2007, 11:00 AM

On my first cycle with var I experienced some pain on the right side of my belly, probably due to overloaded gal! And it was Holiday season too, and you know , family dinner etc......

But after a while it went back to normal. I had my blood screened and I was taking Roaccutane as well!
Soooooo, I think it is ok!

I might try Primo depot next time...... still deciding!!

One should take Milk thitle to protect liver though!

**Microbrew** · 01-24-2007, 04:11 PM

The highest my Bilirubin total got was 2.0 , shouldn't be over 1.2 and had blood work done last wk and it came back at 1.8, last april it was 1.4. So in the last 4yrs I haven't had my Bilirubin in the normal levels. When it was 1.4 I think I was off gear for about 6 months. Right my Creatinine/Serum is 1.5 which it should be 1.5 or lower 1.6 is consider high, my GFR test which is a test that test your Kidney filteration rate is 52 and should be over 60, they say if your GFR stays under 60 for 3 months in a row, then they will label you as having CKD (Cronic Kidney Disease), this is the test I'm most worry about, December was 51 when and January was 52. I won't be getting another blood test for about afew more months when I have to get my cholesterol checked again which is the highest it's ever been (224).

All I have to say is Tren is some hard ass shit, first time I took tren my bilirubin hit 2.0, stopped tren for over 1yr went down to 1.4, took tren again and hit 1.8. Another thing is this is the longest I have stayed on gear so I think that's a mayor issue with my test results. I've been on since May , not fullblown didn't low test for a couple of months in between switching up gear but I was still on something.

Micro