Winny or Var?

[Kev_325]

hey guys im doing a Test E/Dbol cycle
1-12 Test E 500mg/week
1-4 Dbol 60mg


im thinking of addig either var or winny to the end, but ive heard really good things about both, i guess it depends on my goals : im lookign 2 gain size and cut fat. But im worried abt the sides of winny and the cholestrol spike of var.

im 210 5'11 13%bf on week 1 of my cycle

[HORSE~]

I would add winny at week 9 or 10 and run it to week 14 then start pct the day after the last winny injection....

[HORSE~]

Should have asked before I answered your question...What is your cycle history??

[Kev_325]

this is my first cycle

[HORSE~]

Then in my oppinion you should just stick with the test and dbol....

I also think that you should drop the dbol dose down to around 30 to 40 mg per day....

[Selene]

cholestrol spike of var.

this is common with all type of AAS, not just anavar, it is one of the
adverse affects of steroid useage

[Kev_325]

i was also leaning toward winny

[wjclinton]

Winny is much worse on cholesterol levels than anavar is. I've taken both. Much prefer anavar but it is a lot more expensive. 60mg of dbol is a lot! 30mg is enough.

[wjclinton]

oops

[Halfcenturian]

hey guys im doing a Test E/Dbol cycle
1-12 Test E 500mg/week
1-4 Dbol 60mg


im thinking of addig either var or winny to the end, but ive heard really good things about both, i guess it depends on my goals : im lookign 2 gain size and cut fat. But im worried abt the sides of winny and the cholestrol spike of var.

im 210 5'11 13%bf on week 1 of my cycle

You can close it out with Var. Load up on fish oil, flax oil and olive oil.
Take twice a day. Var is FAR less harmful than winnie regarding cholesterol. Run 4 weeks. Get blood work done post cycle, 6 weeks.

[passthetest]

No winny first cycle!

[rhed]

You can close it out with Var. Load up on fish oil, flax oil and olive oil.
Take twice a day. Var is FAR less harmful than winnie regarding cholesterol. Run 4 weeks. Get blood work done post cycle, 6 weeks.

and don't forget RYR too...

[testosterona]

two of you said Winny is "LESS harmful on the cholesterol than VAR???" any proof/test you can post? i really doubt that. no offesnse, just curious now. thanks

test

[knownutz]

from the steroid profiles by anthony roberts. I suggest you read. Stanozolol has one of the worst hepatoxicity (mg for mg) of any steroid. This is the reason it’s addition to a bulking cycle could be problematic; generally a bulking cycle will be very heavy, dosage wise as well as toxicity-wise. It also has undesirable results on Cholesterol, and a mere 6mgs/day of Stanozolol can lower HDL by 33% and raise LDL by 29% (3). Cardiac Hypertrophy, even at lower doses could be a concern with Winstrol

Everything I've read on anavar is it is quite mild. Personally I get more side effects from winstrol. I personal wont run winstrol more th 6 weeks. The side effects get on it suck.

[Pete789]

Remember that Stanazolol dries up your joints.well it does for me anyhow.
I am dong a very simnilar cycle now and will finish up with Var
Peter

[Random]

Remember that Stanazolol dries up your joints.well it does for me anyhow.
I am dong a very simnilar cycle now and will finish up with Var
Peter

This actually is NOT true....a clip taken from Anthony Roberts..

"Lowering estrogen will reduce water retention, but of equal importance it will also limit your body's ability to produce estrogen-mediated anti-inflammatory reactions to weight training. You lose water and your joints hurt, which is why the myth exists that lost water in the joints is the source of discomfort. It is true that you one loses subcutaneous water when estrogen levels are low, but it's simply not true that losing this water will make your joints hurt. It is the loss of estrogen and progesterone’s anti-inflammatory effects that is behind the aching joints."

[duramaxedge]

Kev.. id stick to the test e and dbol man.. Definately drop that to 40mg man.. thats what I run dbol @ for a front loader.. I wouldnt worry about the winny or anavar now.. save that for your next cycle.. as long as you do your pct right and keep some ldex on hand you shouldnt bloat at all.. and the aas will help to cut some fat as well.. you should be pleased regardless

[jdavis2007]

Regardless of what action mediates 'srol's affects on joints, it will still hurt MOST people's joints that take it. I would stick with a 6 week course of var to close out a MORE EXPERIENCED athlete's cycle.

[Halfcenturian]

two of you said Winny is "LESS harmful on the cholesterol than VAR???" any proof/test you can post? i really doubt that. no offesnse, just curious now. thanks

test

Read the steroid profiles for criesake. Do you shave yet?

[Halfcenturian]

Click Drug name to View Profile: Anavar and Winstrol

[reppedout1]

grat info bro1def gonna run var now over winny

[testosterona]

Read the steroid profiles for criesake. Do you shave yet?

the profiles?? iv read those profiles twice, iv ran var and winny. var hard the hardest impact on my lipid panel while i was running it. of course it's milder than winny as far as most sides goes.....but i'm wondering about cholesterol. i always read var was the king of impacting cholesterol negatively. i'm not seeing them even touch on the cholesterol effects in that var "profile" you posted. everybody knows how bad of a spike VAR causes.....?

test

BTW: shave? WTF

[testosterona]

After eight weeks of weight-bearing exercise and drug therapy, the men receiving oxandrolone averaged an increase in lean body mass of 6.9 kg, compared to 3.8 kg with placebo. This was accompanied by an average 1.6 kg decrease in fat mass for both groups. Nitrogen retention increased to a greater extent with oxandrolone treatment (5.6 g/day versus 3.8 g/day). Likewise, all men gained strength in their upper and lower body muscle groups, with the oxandrolone arm exhibiting a greater increase.

The use of protease inhibitors, which can interfere with fat and sugar metabolism (see Treatment Issues, March 1999), did not affect the results. Although total fat tissue mass went down in both the oxandrolone and the placebo cohorts, total blood cholesterol rose in the oxandrolone group. At the same time, the proportion of cholesterol complexed with the heart-protective high density lipoprotein (HDL) decreased. There was no change in cholesterol among those receiving the placebo. The significant reduction in the HDL to total cholesterol ratio associated with oxandrolone in this trial could increase the risk of heart disease.

This article is a part of the publication GMHC Treatment Issues.

Our thanks to Gay Men's Health Crisis, which provided this article to The Body.

HERE"S ANOTHER:

William R. Hazzard1 Contact Information, Patricia W. Wahl1, Claude Gagne1, Deborah Applebaum-Bowden1, G. Russell Warnick1 and John J. Albers1
(1) Northwest Lipid Research Clinic and Departments of Medicine and Biostatistics, University of Washington, 98195 Seattle, WA

Received: 8 September 1983
Abstract The responses of 14 hyperlipidemic subjects to 4 hypolipidemic agents were compared by measureing cholesterol and triglyceride in whole plasma, very low density lipoproteins (VLDL), low density lipoproteins (LDL), and high density lipoproteins (HDL) monthly for 2 months before and 3 months during treatment with each of 4 drugs: clofibrate, 2 g/d; colestipol, 20 g/d; para-aminosalicylic acid-ascorbate (PAS-C), 6–8 g/d; and oxandrolone, 7.5 mg/d. Lipid responses proved to be stable by the first monthly evaluation both off and on each drug. Mean adherence was high and similar for all agents (81–92% of the prescribed dose). Clofibrate was associated with significant decreases in mean plasma cholesterol (−16%, p<.01), plasma triglyceride (−51%, p<.005), VLDL-cholesterol (−61%, p<.005) and VLDL-triglyceride (−61%, P<.005), while HDL cholesterol increased (+20%, p<.01), and the LDL-cholesterol/HDL ratio declined (−24%, p<.05). Colestipol was associated with decreases in mean plasma cholesterol (−15%, p<.01) and LDL-cholesterol (−22%, p<.05), while VLDL-triglyceride increased (+41%, p<.05), and the LDL-cholesterol/HDL-cholesterol ratio declined (−25%, p<.05). PAS-C was associated with decreases in VLDL-cholesterol (−30%, p<.05), and VLDL-triglyceride (−29%, p<.05), while the LDL-cholesterol/HDL-cholesterol ratio remained unchanged. Oxandrolone was associated with increases in mean plasma cholesterol (+7%, p<.05), LDL-cholesterol (+45%, p<.005 [+25% excluding one subject who increased 298%]), and LDL-triglyceride (+24%, p<.01), while decreases occurred in plasma triglyceride (−31%, p<.05), VLDL-cholesterol (−26%, p<.05), VLDL-triglyceride (−42%, p<.005), HDL-cholesterol (−45%, p<.005), and HDL-triglyceride (−43%, p<.01). The mean LDL-cholesterol/HDL-cholesterol ratio increased by 109% (p<.005), reflecting the reciprocal changes in LDL and HDL. Thus, while both clofibrate and colestipol were associated with significant, equivalent reductions in theoretical atherogenic risk, oxandrolone produced a net effect that was not only adverse but 4 times that magnitude, suggesting caution in its long-term use, even for the management of hypertriglyceridemia.
William R. Hazzard was an investigator of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute during the course of this study
Claude Gagne was a research fellow of the Medical Research Council of Canada during the course of this study.
John J. Albers is an established investigator of the American Heart Association. of this study

those are pretty bad percentages my friends. var is not all rose peddles and daisy's,lol.

test

[Halfcenturian]

[QUOTE=testosterona]the profiles?? iv read those profiles twice, iv ran var and Winnie. var hard the hardest impact on my lipid panel while i was running it. of course it's milder than Winnie as far as most sides goes.....but i'm wondering about cholesterol. i always read var was the king of impacting cholesterol negatively. i'm not seeing them even touch on the cholesterol effects in that var "profile" you posted. everybody knows how bad of a spike VAR causes.....?

test

BTW: shave? WTF[/QUOTE


AS ALWAYS, Everyone is different. If you tried them, then you should be able to decide for yourself. Lipids and the liver can be protected to a certain degree with supps. I just happen to like Var. It does not spike MY cholesterol because I take statin drugs and a host of other protection supps. You can do the same with Winnie. Winnie just turns me into beef jerky. DRY! Do your homework. Get some more opinions. I gave you mine.

I'll give you one more. You should gain 30 pounds natty and lift as heavy as possible for another year. Then run a cycle. I don't understand why guys under 25 fukc with steroids, when diet and training would get you 70% there.
You are in your prime natty test years. Why get acne, go bald, shrink up your balls, etc. When you could achieve your goals naturally.

The shaving thing - You just look very young and underdeveloped, nothing personal. I'm old and wrinkled. Just don't like to see young guys fukc themselves up.

[testosterona]

gottcha!

BTW: you think id post vatar pic if it were mE!!! ha! I'LL switch it....im sick of that sh#t, lol.

[Halfcenturian]

gottcha!

BTW: you think id post vatar pic if it were mE!!! ha! I'LL switch it....im sick of that sh#t, lol.

HAHAHAHA oh, kids these days...

NO... I GOT YOU. YOUR STUDY IS FROM 1983. BEFORE YOU WERE BORN. Chill out, junior.

[testosterona]

HAHAHAHA oh, kids these days...

NO... I GOT YOU. YOUR STUDY IS FROM 1983. BEFORE YOU WERE BORN. Chill out, junior.

LMAO, damn, i shouldve caught that! you got me

test

[Halfcenturian]

LMAO, damn, i shouldve caught that! you got me

test

I love ya little brother. We're all bros here.
You're doing great. Just be careful. I'm out. Peace

[Hellmaskbanned]

No! No! I want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle!

[testosterona]

No! No! I want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle!

HM, i'm sure you do buddy just hold tight untill my next big c*ke deal w, pablo is finished and i'll pitch in.....OKAAYYYEE

test