Newbie - First Cycle

[nilrac]

Hi there,

24 years old (male), 5ft 11", 175Ibs, been working out (naturally) for around 3 years, seriously for somwhere between a year and a half and 2 years. Went from 150Ibs to 175Ibs on lots of whey protein to begin with. Started using some creatine, n.o. xplode and more recently testesterone "enhancers" (Norateen by LA Muscle). Feel like I am hitting a brick wall trying to get up over 180. I eat 6 meals a day, plus my shakes, normally have a slow releasing protein shake, plus Norateen lately, before I go to sleep. I am dabbling with the idea of trying steroids. I've researched it alot online for the past few months, which led me to lurking on this forum. The problem with researching steroids is that people have different experiences or sides with them, so it's hard to decide what would be best for me.

I don't want to get scary big, just looking for another 15Ibs or so. And I want to build the mass gradually, not quickly. Var seems like a good 'mild' option, but from what people tell me, it doesn't have much good effect by itself. Winstrol also seems like a possibility and like Var would be easy to get from my source. Tbol seems very good for what I am looking to achieve, but my source said it would be very difficult to get, which rules it out. And yes, they are all oral versions I am talking about and I know you need to be careful about your liver (shorter cycles), especially with orals, but they seem like less hassle to me than injections and also because I am not looking for massivem and/or fast gains.

That said, one person I discussed this with suggested that I try a 12 week cycle of Deca, two injections per week, and then get on Clomid after I finish the cycle to try and get my natural testestorone back to "base". Would this be a wise choice of steroid? I've searched the forum thoroughly on threads about Deca. The most worrying aspect is, I guess, "deca dick". As it is, I wake up with heavy duty morning wood every day, and have done for the last decade+ of my life, haha, but as I read about Deca, it tells me that it completely suppresses your natural testestorone, hence the clomid after the cycle is over. So yeah, the threads I read were helpful in some respects and not in others, but opinions seems to be split right down the middle with this steroid. One person recommends Deca on it's own and the next says it is a bad idea. I realise that opinions and personal experiences are going to differ, but I guess I am just looking for a little more advice before I "turn to the darkside".

So yeah, a recommendation for first steroid use, to make decent and steady, not huge and fast, size and strength gains, along with any other drugs I'd need to combat any unwanted sides attributed to that steroid would be appreciated. Like I said, I keep researching, but read one thing, then the other. Very confusing...

Sorry for the novel btw. I look forward to some advice, if you can spare the time.


P.S. I am looking to keep training naturally for another 4 - 6 months and persevere with diet and supplements before I take the initial plunge...

[lucabratzi]

if you were to ask me i would say your best bet is to stay natural if you ultimate goal is 15lbs of muslce..you can gain that in easily in a little oveer a year..i think u still have a lot of room to grow naturally...but if u really wanna juice then i would say just do a simple test cycle...4-500mgs a week for 10-12 weeks could easily get u the 15lbs...with proper pct..

[nilrac]

Thanks for the response. Whatever I choose to do, I am going to train naturally for atleast another four months, probably more.

[trenzbyotch]

yea, at 5'11 175 you can achieve a tremendous amount naturally.. no doubt just hit the compounds, deads, squats, rows benches and get that diet in order. can't grow without the proper amount of calories, rest, etc..

[MFT81]

here is a good question:

If there were no such thing as steroids would you still keep trying to gain that 15 lbs or give up?

[nilrac]

Been stuck at 175 for a long while now (8 months or so). Not about to "give up" because I enjoy training, first and foremost. And although size hasn't changed much of late, my strength has increased a little in the same time frame. Just looking for a little extra size on top of the good natural gains I've made already. I think from 150 to 175 is pretty good going and shows that I've taken my diet and training seriously.

Like I said already, I am going to continue to train naturally for the next how many months, and really put the effort in and get the calories in me. I eat a ton of chicken and steak and pasta along with my shakes. I have an insane metabolism, seriously, so putting on any kind of bulk is very difficult, fat or muscle, doesn't matter, my weight stays the same. But like I said, I will persevere...

I was just looking for some advice on what steroids I should look at to begin with, and so far, only one person has answered that question. Thanks though.

[MFT81]

Thats because no one else really thinks you should use juice...I mean if gaining weight was easy no one would need steroids.

I know you dont care but 5 years ago I weighed 150 lbs at 6ft. This was after a 1 year deployment which I lost 30lbs.

Now I weigh in at around 205-210 and im still natural. Meaning me and so many others have been in your shoes.

You fire back with classic responces such as "Its flustrating to stay the same weight for 8months" and "I eat a TON of chicken, Beef, etc."

Threads like this come and go everyday and everytime a lot of valuable resources give the same answears but to no avail because the person thats eager to juice dosent want to hear it.

However there are a select few who heed thier advice and make huge improvements, many of which are respected members this day with many more posts than mine....

Im not trying to tell you what to do, But I really care. I want you to achieve the body YOU want, I want you to gain that 15lbs!!! Its just that I know what your going through cause Im going through it now, and I did when I tried to weigh 190 then 200 then 210 and so on....

You've taken the first step by comming here and wanting to learn, so I say you should at least have a very firm grasp of what cycle YOUwant to run and what type of PCT etc etc before you send in $ for drugs.

[nilrac]

Thanks for the response.

Like I said, I am going to continue to train naturally for the forseeable future, but if I can't make the gains I want, or perhaps do make those gains, and am still not happy, then I may juice. I am on so many friggin supplements anyway, so where do you draw the line?

And, you said I wouldn't care, but it's good to hear that you have made such good gains naturally, but then I'd ask the question, why are you a member on this anabolic steroid forum with hundreds of posts to your name? That doesn't make much sense to me at all. Fair do's there is a diet forum, and a training forum e.t.c, but lets not beat around the bush, this is a forum about steroids. And talking about good natural body building, my brother is 235Ibs, natural, and we eat alot of the same stuff! I was never meant to be that big, and don't want to be that big, but it is alot easier for some people to bulk, even just 15 - 20Ibs (especially after a 25Ib gain already), than others, and at 5ft 11" with my natural weight being 150Ibs 3 years ago (maybe slightly less), I don't think I was ever going to be over 180Ibs lean, so I am getting close to that already, hence hitting the brick wall. Then I look around the forum and see alot of people, on juice, who are nowhere near 200Ibs anyway, so that leaves me a little confused about the lack of input on my thread (?).

In anycase, not looking for an argument, far from it. I was just looking for some extra advice -on steroids, not calories- on top of everything else I have learned while researching steroids online. I guess, I will continue with my current natural regime, and when the time comes, I will rely on my source, rather than this forum for advice (on steroids, not calorie intake). Which is not ideal, but the way it has to be, I guess. Thanks again though, I appreciate your sentiment!

[Kale]

Thanks for the response.

Like I said, I am going to continue to train naturally for the forseeable future, but if I can't make the gains I want, or perhaps do make those gains, and am still not happy, then I may juice. I am on so many friggin supplements anyway, so where do you draw the line?

And, you said I wouldn't care, but it's good to hear that you have made such good gains naturally, but then I'd ask the question, why are you a member on this anabolic steroid forum with hundreds of posts to your name? That doesn't make much sense to me at all. Fair do's there is a diet forum, and a training forum e.t.c, but lets not beat around the bush, this is a forum about steroids. And talking about good natural body building, my brother is 235Ibs, natural, and we eat alot of the same stuff! I was never meant to be that big, and don't want to be that big, but it is alot easier for some people to bulk, even just 15 - 20Ibs (especially after a 25Ib gain already), than others, and at 5ft 11" with my natural weight being 150Ibs 3 years ago (maybe slightly less), I don't think I was ever going to be over 180Ibs lean, so I am getting close to that already, hence hitting the brick wall. Then I look around the forum and see alot of people, on juice, who are nowhere near 200Ibs anyway, so that leaves me a little confused about the lack of input on my thread (?).

In anycase, not looking for an argument, far from it. I was just looking for some extra advice -on steroids, not calories- on top of everything else I have learned while researching steroids online. I guess, I will continue with my current natural regime, and when the time comes, I will rely on my source, rather than this forum for advice (on steroids, not calorie intake). Which is not ideal, but the way it has to be, I guess. Thanks again though, I appreciate your sentiment!

Why would you do something that dumb ? You really think you source knows what he is talking about or gives a shit about your health ? Because we sure as hell do. You have been given good advice. If you decide to juice, and thats your choice, then the best option is Test E 500mg per week for 12 weeks and then proper PCT, end of story, do not pass go !!

[donniebrasco]

could try var only, should result in some good strength gains, which should help you through that wall.

[AleX-69]

Hi there,

24 years old (male), 5ft 11", 175Ibs, been working out (naturally) for around 3 years, seriously for somwhere between a year and a half and 2 years. Went from 150Ibs to 175Ibs on lots of whey protein to begin with. Started using some creatine, n.o. xplode and more recently testesterone "enhancers" (Norateen by LA Muscle). Feel like I am hitting a brick wall trying to get up over 180. I eat 6 meals a day, plus my shakes, normally have a slow releasing protein shake, plus Norateen lately, before I go to sleep. I am dabbling with the idea of trying steroids. I've researched it alot online for the past few months, which led me to lurking on this forum. The problem with researching steroids is that people have different experiences or sides with them, so it's hard to decide what would be best for me.

Hi,

first and foremost i appreciate that you give us some much info about yourself, training background and supplement regimen. This is a rare case on this board
Gaining 25lbs in approx 2 years is not that bad at all.
Could you give us a quick rundown of your diet and an exact list of the supplements you are taking?
Don't get me wrong here. If you are training for an extendend period of time, your diet is in check + you have researched a lot about potential AAS use i think it is perfectly fine for you to use anabolics.

I don't want to get scary big, just looking for another 15Ibs or so. And I want to build the mass gradually, not quickly. Var seems like a good 'mild' option, but from what people tell me, it doesn't have much good effect by itself. Winstrol also seems like a possibility and like Var would be easy to get from my source. Tbol seems very good for what I am looking to achieve, but my source said it would be very difficult to get, which rules it out. And yes, they are all oral versions I am talking about and I know you need to be careful about your liver (shorter cycles), especially with orals, but they seem like less hassle to me than injections and also because I am not looking for massivem and/or fast gains.

Well, to be honest. Oral Only cycles are possible, yes. But in the end i would prefer Injectable + oral cycles. You will gain more + the gains seem to be more keepable. Injecting yourself is not nearly as bad as some might think. If you a careful you sometimes don't even feel the needle going in..
If you want to join the dark side. Do it right...!

Moreover Injectables have various advantages over some orals. Most have little impact on your blood lipid profile and your liver values. Moreover most 17aa Steroids (Orals) seem to promote a negative impact on Glucocorticoids which makes it more difficult to keep gains after an oral cycle. Exceptions would be Var and Halo (the latter is NOT RECOMMENDED FOR A FIRST TIMER!!!!).
Moroever T-bol has caused kindey problems for some users. The kidneys are not very regenerative organs so i would be careful F***ing with them.
Concerning your goals in mind i think a cycle of Test Prop (300mg/week) and VAr (50mg/day) will yield good results without to much sides.. i'd say run 10-12 weeks.

That said, one person I discussed this with suggested that I try a 12 week cycle of Deca, two injections per week, and then get on Clomid after I finish the cycle to try and get my natural testestorone back to "base". Would this be a wise choice of steroid? I've searched the forum thoroughly on threads about Deca. The most worrying aspect is, I guess, "deca dick". As it is, I wake up with heavy duty morning wood every day, and have done for the last decade+ of my life, haha, but as I read about Deca, it tells me that it completely suppresses your natural testestorone, hence the clomid after the cycle is over. So yeah, the threads I read were helpful in some respects and not in others, but opinions seems to be split right down the middle with this steroid. One person recommends Deca on it's own and the next says it is a bad idea. I realise that opinions and personal experiences are going to differ, but I guess I am just looking for a little more advice before I "turn to the darkside".

Deca will shut you down HARD. I would not advise using it,.. Even when using clomid after your cycle has ended you will probably suffer some time libido wise.

So yeah, a recommendation for first steroid use, to make decent and steady, not huge and fast, size and strength gains, along with any other drugs I'd need to combat any unwanted sides attributed to that steroid would be appreciated. Like I said, I keep researching, but read one thing, then the other. Very confusing...

P.S. I am looking to keep training naturally for another 4 - 6 months and persevere with diet and supplements before I take the initial plunge...

I appreciate that you want to train some more months naturally and educate yourself some more. This is a lot better than most people who make unifomred decisons concerning the use of AAS.
I'd rather have u using AAS in a responsible way - even if you are not near your genetical limit - than seeing some dumba** downing 20dbols and some afros a day without knowing about PCT, side effects ...

[AleX-69]

Why would you do something that dumb ? You really think you source knows what he is talking about or gives a shit about your health ? Because we sure as hell do.

That is defo true!!

[nilrac]

Well, now I don't need to rely on my source, because I actually got some great information! That was an idle "threat" anyway and more to get a point across than anything, due to lack of responses like Alex's. In anycase, I would have continued to lurk around, looking for as much information as possible, then make a decision based on that.

Many thanks to Alex, very informative post and I appreciate you taking the time to spell things out for me. I should also mention that my source is actually my friend, friend first, became source secondly, but I'd still trust several different opinions on this forum, over one individual's personal experience, no matter if he is a friend or not.

Anyway, *average* day of eating... not got calorie info handy, but it adds up to alot with the shakes I take.

8am. Non trainng day, N.O Xplode on waking, followed by...
Wholemeal breakfast cereal with full fat milk
10am. Protein + Complex Carb shake w/ 2 Norateen
12 noon. usually some pasta or something like that (high carbs)
2pm. Protein + Complex Carb shake w/ 2 Norateen
5pm. Main meal, either chicken again or steak or similar (high protein&carbs)
8pm. Protein + Complex Carb shake
10pm. Peanut butter sandwiches on brown bread w/ some cookies and milk
12am. Protein + Complex Carb shake w/ Norateen
Sleep.

I do this religously, obviously there will be 10 minutes give or take here or there. The odd day, I may miss a meal or shake, depending on my schedule, but for the most part I put in alot of dedication with it and that's how I made the initial gain of 25Ibs.

My main meals are a little vague there, sometimes I have a chicken double breasted open pie, with potatoes and vegetables. My steak is always with vegetables too. Pasta is normally just that, with a tomato sauce, but sometimes bolognese. I am aiming to put a good dose of 45g of protein into my body, or close to that, every couple of hours. I can't really fit anything else in. My work is good in that, I do alot of it from home, but I still find it hard to cram it all in. That's 4 protein/carb shakes a day, which bag you up, plus four meals usually. Depending, I could also be using creatine to train. I also try to eat a couple of bananas daily, which I fit in wherever I can. If I ever have rice, it's boiled. Little things like that...

And I feel good for it... but I want to get a bit bigger.
I suppose something I should be eating more of, is fish. I can't stand tuna, but if I am out I'll eat prawns, lobster, scallops, halibut (expensive taste, haha) e.t.c.

I try to keep junk food to a minimum, but I'd be lying if I said I never had the odd bag of crisps here and there. I will drink beer on the weekends if I am not training, but again, surely that would ADD weight, even if it was bad weight e.g. fat. But nothing... can't increase weight at all.

I'll keep trying, I mean you are talking about a 1Ib of lean weight naturally, per week with body building, if you are lucky right? I will continue with the plan and look at some other food types as well. Maybe try some new supplements, currently using Nutrisport shakes.

Anyway, thanks again.

[Kale]

Have you had a read of this ? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=113010

[nilrac]

Might try swallowing a load of egg whites as well as the protein shakes. That seems to work for people. Saw my brother doing it as well. BUT HE STINKS NOW!

[Kale]

Might try swallowing a load of egg whites as well as the protein shakes. That seems to work for people. Saw my brother doing it as well. BUT HE STINKS NOW!

Its a lot safer cooking them dude.

[nilrac]

Yeah, my old man told him that too, but he doesn't listen.

[MFT81]

[QUOTE=nilrac] why are you a member on this anabolic steroid forum with hundreds of posts to your name? QUOTE]

Because when I first found this board I felt I wanted to do steroids too.

But the more I learned the more I felt that this stuff was serious enough that maybe I wasnt ready yet.

now after spending 5years here researching im still not ready yet. I could easily design my own cycle, what aux. meds id need etc etc but i feel i can still make gains naturally.

im glad that your going to stick around and havent told everyone to F-Off already. You'll truly learn alot and the members here are great, the best on the net IMO.

GOOD LUCK in whatever path you choose.

[nilrac]

Thanks man, I appreciate the welcome. And I guess me and you have similar views, I don't really feel like I am quite ready yet, hence the amount of questions and hesitation, but it's in the back of my mind to try a cycle and I probably will (eventually). Telling people to "F-Off" isn't my style either, I like to discuss things, and it's nice to be nice. Very off topic (sorry) and neither here nor there, but I had a very close friend pass away on January 10th (2007) at the age of 22 years old, somebody I've spent alot of time with since he was 6 years old, and it puts perspective on things to say the least. Life is short and can be even shorter! Take it easy man and goodluck with the natural regime, I am going to keep trying it naturally for the forseeable future after listening to what everybody has to say on here. But I think I will try the juice eventually, and I'll remain a part of this forum to learn the most I can from responsible members. Best,

[Fordfan01]

Why would you do something that dumb ? You really think you source knows what he is talking about or gives a shit about your health ? Because we sure as hell do. You have been given good advice. If you decide to juice, and thats your choice, then the best option is Test E 500mg per week for 12 weeks and then proper PCT, end of story, do not pass go !!

Exactly, my source is a freaking retard. He trys to tell me how to run my cycle and im like ok thanks man but in my mind im like dude dont sell this unless u kno how to tell ppl to take it. I was told to take test e at 300mg every other week. ppl on this site know wat they are talking about and i would trust them over any wanker at my gym.