HELP guys, need some quality input from experience

[Tbucket]

I have a complete physical schedule in the next 2 weeks and wondered if there is a way to lower my test levels before I go in W/O running a cycle before hand, thats not an option.....the reason should be obvious, and I have posted my stats/goals/current plans in other threads, but just a recap.....pretty clean diet, cardio/lift 5x wk, just running some clen now, all to lose some blubber......Id like to run some test just to maintain some muscle during this and would like the 1st cycle to be under my doc's supervision.....(but eventually might look into supporting GETHRT.com).....any suggestions, I have no clue what the levels are but have researched on some things to "say" during the consult, but would like to do what I can if possible to lower the levels....my luck, I'll go in and sob this big story and they come back at 800+...lol...thanks in advance for the serious, quality advice

[Kale]

None that I am aware of. You need to be running Exogenous Test for a while and then stop for a couple of weeks to be at the levels you require

[Njord]

None that I am aware of. You need to be running Exogenous Test for a while and then stop for a couple of weeks to be at the levels you require

Kale, what about taking some deca. From what I understand this will lower you natural test pretty fast even at low doses?

[Kale]

Kale, what about taking some deca. From what I understand this will lower you natural test pretty fast even at low doses?

Actually thats not a bad idea, you can give that a go but I hope you arnt using your Dick at the moment. Doesnt happen to everybody but it does happen. How long have you got to go before the appointment

[Njord]

Actually thats not a bad idea, you can give that a go but I hope you arnt using your Dick at the moment. Doesnt happen to everybody but it does happen. How long have you got to go before the appointment

According to Anthony Roberts book, a 1ml injection of deca suppressed the natural testosterone levels 100%. From the graph it looks like it only took 5-6 days to do so. It took about 30 days for Test production to return to normal.

[Kale]

According to Anthony Roberts book, a 1ml injection of deca suppressed the natural testosterone levels 100%. From the graph it looks like it only took 5-6 days to do so. It took about 30 days for Test production to return to normal.

There ya go !!! Problem solved.

[Tbucket]

Well if I had access to a shot of Deca I might consider.......my appointment is next Thursday...but I found some info thanks to a thread I found posted by....damn, I didnt write his name down...oh well, this is pretty interesting stuff......

Your Doctor, Your Dealer
How to get what you want from your MD
by Cy Willson




Da man has what you need. He can hook you up with the good stuff — no fakes, no counterfeits, no problem. His gear is always legit and of the highest quality. This cat is on the inside, my man, a true player. He even has the police in his pocket. That's right, you won't even have to worry about legal hassles dealing with this dude. Now, I'll tell you who he is, but you gotta' promise to play it cool, alright, G? The best dealer in town is? your doctor!


Whuz up, Doc?

The doctor's office. It's not our favorite place to be. It smells funny. The magazines are always from 1987. It's full of sick little rug rats and there's a funny stain on the floor. To top it off, the receptionists aren't even hot. And all this is just in the waiting room! Let's not even talk about what goes on behind closed doors — groping and squeezing and that damned cold stethoscope! After you go through all of that, you get to hear a lecture about the dangerous effects of "new" supplements like creatine and ephedrine. Your doctor may even suggest you take up walking if you want to be really fit and healthy.

So why in the world would you actually want to go to the doctor's office? Well, not all doctors are behind the times or extremely close-minded. We can use these evolved doctors to our advantage in order to obtain drugs that we'd otherwise have to purchase on the black market or in some other way which is essentially illegal. What kind of gear can your get from your MD? How about Clomid, Nolvadex, anastrozole, and plain old Testosterone! Sounds like a sweet deal, huh?

In the following article, I'll show you:

? How to find one of these more open-minded doctors.
? What to say to them in order to ultimately obtain what you desire.
? How to fiddle with your body to fool the tests.


The search for Dr. Feelgood

Here's the easiest part. The first thing you need to do is find a phone book. Now go to the yellow pages and find "Physicians." Got it? Okay, now look for any doctors specializing in natural and alternative medicine and weight control. If you can find one specializing in anti-aging, you have rung the cherries. Now, decide what you want (within reason) and call and make an appointment.

I'm going to give you some different scenarios depending on what you wish to obtain. Think of the following as a "cheat sheet" to use when talking to your doctor.


Clomid (Clomiphene)

This will be the easiest drug to get in most cases. After you get past the receptionist and into the room, the doc will finally come in. Try not to be caught stealing Band-Aids. He'll then ask you why you've come today. The easiest and best response would be to tell him that you're a former anabolic steroid user who's trying to have children. If he's not familiar with clomiphene's use as a treatment for male infertility, tell him to look it up in his Physicians Desk Reference.

Now, although clomiphene isn't "approved" for male infertility, this will at least give him a reference point and may give you some credibility. Another option is to say that you think you have all the symptoms of low Testosterone levels and that you'd like to get your endogenous levels up. (I'll provide a list of these symptoms at the end of the article.) You could even tell him once again, that this problem may have stemmed from prior use of anabolic steroids.

If he's still hesitant to write the script, which I doubt, you can bring along these two abstracts of studies which should be accessed easily via public Medline. You should be able to find these and any other studies listed by simply typing in the title or the author and then looking for the study. They are:

1) "The effects of aging in normal men on bioavailable Testosterone and luteinizing hormone secretion: response to clomiphene citrate." It can be found in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 1987 Dec;65(6):1118-26 by Tenover JS, et al.

2) "The effects of normal aging on the response of the pituitary-gonadal axis to chronic clomiphene administration in men." J Androl 1991 Jul-Aug;12(4):258-63 by Tenover JS, et al.

Both studies found increased LH and Testosterone in both young and old men that were normal and healthy. Now, pulling out these studies shouldn't be necessary with the type of open minded doctors that we're looking for. They'll probably bite when you give them the simple notion that clomiphene, since it stimulates the release of gonadotropins by competitively binding to estrogen receptors in the female hypothalamus and pituitary, it should (and does) do the same in men. However, just to be safe, you may want to print a copy of the two studies for backup.

So, now the doc has written you the script. The only thing left to do is head to the pharmacy and pick it up. Before you go, have the doc write "off label use" on the script, so the pharmacist doesn't look at you strangely and ask, "You trying to get pregnant, mister?" Remember, outside of the bodybuilding world, Clomid is used as a fertility enhancer for females. Having the doc write those three words will save a little time and prevent any harassment.


Nolvadex (Tamoxifen)

This particular drug will be harder to obtain than Clomid, simply because it really isn't used for infertility. The only sure shot a man might have would be if he had gynecomastia. You could say that your nipples are sensitive and that you feel gyno may be coming on. Or, you could try an approach that's similar for obtaining clomiphene. You could present him with the abstracts and reason with him that tamoxifen also binds competitively to estrogen receptor sites in a similar fashion to clomiphene.

The abstracts with which to arm yourself are:

1) "Divergent effects of the antiestrogen tamoxifen and of estrogens on luteinizing hormone (LH) pulse frequency, but not on basal LH levels and LH pulse amplitude in men." J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1988 Feb;66(2):355-60 by Spijkstra JJ, et al.

2) "Estrogens in the feedback regulation of gonadotropin secretion in men: effects of administration of estrogen to agonadal subjects and the anitestrogen tamoxifen and the aromatase inhibitor delta`-testolactone to eugonadal subjects." Andrologia 1984 Nov-Dec;16(6):568-77 by Gooren LJ, et al.

Both studies found increases of LH in normal men after tamoxifen was administered. Again, Nolvadex is primarily used by women; specifically in the treatment of advanced breast cancer in postmenopausal women. So, you might be prepared to tell the pharmacist not to worry, as you don't have breast cancer.


Arimidex (Anastrozole)

This next drug will be even harder to obtain. The reason being is that doctors generally can't understand why a male would want to reduce estrogen levels! They might even suggest that a person use an estrogen antagonist instead. However, we've helped to eliminate the doctors who can't "understand" by specifically looking for the more open minded and up-to-date practitioners. So, the doctor should know that Arimidex works by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme which converts Testosterone to estrogen, thereby leading to a reduction of estrogen.

What you must do is show your doc that suppressing estrogen via aromatase inhibition, will indeed increase LH as well as Testosterone. A very recent study has made an argument just for this case. Here it is:

"Aromatase inhibition in the human male reveals a hypothalamic site of estrogen feedback." J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Sep;85(9):3027-35, authored by Hayes FJ, et al.

Gonadotropins as well as Testosterone were found to increase in nine normal men taking anastrozole. Another study found a 58% increase in Testosterone as well as increases in LH and FSH in eight males. It's titled:

"Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects." J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7.

Another that may help is:

"Inhibition of estrogen biosynthesis and its consequences on gonadotropin secretion in the male." It can be found in the Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, 1992 Mar; 41(3-8):437-43.

If the doc gives you the script, chances are you'll still end up putting a nice dent in your wallet. Arimidex isn't exactly the cheapest drug around. Still, if your estrogen levels are high, it could be well worth the money. On a side note, if your estrogen levels truly are higher than normal, then go ahead and ask one of these docs to write a script for Arimidex. It's likely he would.


Testosterone Replacement

This will probably be the hardest drug therapy to receive because Testosterone is a scheduled drug and you'll have to "take it for life." However, it's still very plausible that you could convince a doctor to administer an amount that would get you to a high physiological range, but not necessarily supraphysiological.

You might run into the problem of a doctor trying to scare you by making unsubstantiated statements about Testosterone's side effects. However, this is the reason why we've chosen a "different" breed of doctor that actually researches drugs and doesn't classify everything in a strictly good or bad category.

Now, even the most open minded docs will still require you to have a hormonal profile evaluation on your blood before they'll consider T replacement. Don't worry though, with these more open minded doctors, your total and free T levels will have to be pretty high for them not to consider replacement. From my personal experience, my total Testosterone was around 700ng/dl while my free Testosterone was 183pg/ml. Even so, my doc gave me a 300mg injection of Testosterone enanthate to see if I noticed any improvements over the following week.

Obviously, every doctor has his or her own opinion on what's "normal". The great thing about the type of doctors we're looking for is that they're more open to helping us get to that high physiological range. This particular doctor wasn't satisfied unless I was at 1,100ng/dl or slightly higher. The only barrier was the insurance. You see, they typically require some lab documentation of "low" Testosterone. They want the lab results to show levels below normal in total and/or free Testosterone.

So, it was time to do some "monkeying," if you catch what I'm saying. Well, I did some tinkering around with my body and my next blood draw revealed a total T-level of 185 ng/dl and a free level of 14 pg/ml. Consequently, I walked out of the office with a legit script for Testosterone, while only paying five bucks for the therapy.

Now, most docs will give you a choice between Androgel or 200-300 mg/week injections. While not being super potent in terms of increasing LBM (like 500/mg a week), this amount would still allow you to reach the high range (if you aren't already hypogonadal).

So now I bet some of you guys want to know how to temporarily lower your T-levels so you can get some doctor prescribed Testosterone. I'll give you some tips at the end, but I'd like to first give you some other pointers.

Symptoms

When you meet with the doctor, he may ask you what symptoms you have or he may ask you some questions which will help him determine if you have a Testosterone deficiency. Tell the doctor the following or answer yes to any questions that pertain to these symptoms. You can give these symptoms in order to help convince the doc to write a script for any of the drugs listed.

? Lethargy
? Lack of sex drive (Not necessarily erections, but lack of sexual desire)
? Possible slight depression
? You gain fat easily
? Have a hard time gaining muscle despite increased calorie intake
? Can't get a good workout (Can't focus, have little drive, can't get a good pump etc.)


Monkeying with the blood test

In order to lower your Testosterone levels, you'll have to do some moderately drastic things. In fact, this will be a pain in the ass! Now, I realize that all this borders on the verge of excess, but hey, if you want it bad enough, you'll be willing to make some rather extreme sacrifices.

First, decrease calorie intake for about a week. If you can, don't eat 24 to 48 hours before the blood draw. When you do eat, eliminate carbs and fat. You'll only be eating protein during the week and preferably nothing the last 24 to 48 hours, except for a drink. The drink will be alcohol.

That's right, this will be the only time I'll actually recommend drinking, but it'll help. To be on the safe side, drink 3 to 5 beers (or equivalent in liquor) a day for 6 to10 days prior to the test. The night before the test, go ahead and have 6 or 7, or whatever it takes to get you drunk enough not to drive. About two hours prior to the test, have 3 to 4 beers.

Since this will all be on an empty stomach, you should have someone drive you to the office and back. Try not to grab the nurse's ass if you start to get tipsy and if there's a lamp in the office, try not to wear the shade as a hat while singing The Village People's "YMCA," accompanied by the appropriate hand motions.

As far as training, you'll be training twice a day including cardio for this entire week in order to raise cortisol levels. This will lower Testosterone as well. I'd also like you to get very little sleep. Around 3 to 4 hours per night and zero sleep the night before the big test. In other words, do everything ass-backwards!

You could also try a birth control pill. However, I don't have any first-hand experience with this method, so I can't say how well it'll work. If what you're trying to get is Arimidex (by displaying elevated estrogen levels), you could try the pill along with androstendione, although I probably wouldn't do it personally.

To really put yourself over the edge, try to watch as many reruns as possible of Designing Women on Lifetime. Your T levels are sure to plummet, unless you decide to kill yourself or become an interior decorator first. Seriously, you may also want to pick up some licorice root. Take around 3,000 mg a day for 6 to10 days until the test. I do, however, want to warn you that you'll need to get plenty of potassium in your diet, as licorice will lower potassium levels. Neglecting this aspect, especially if you're going to be drinking alcohol, too, can be dangerous.

All of these things combined should dramatically reduce your T-levels to the point where you'll qualify for replacement. Oh yeah, and try not to partake in any sexual activity. You'll probably be too fatigued to "bone" anyhow.


Conclusion

Hopefully I've convinced you that lying and deceit are always the way to go when it comes to healthcare. No, I'm only kidding! Seriously, not all doctors are brainwashed and close minded. You just have to look around to find the better ones. Remember to insist that it's your Testosterone levels causing the problems and that you'd like to try the given drug in order to solve the deficiency.

Be up-front about what it is you want from the doctor. Remember, they're there to serve you! Don't be scared about what they might say. What are they going to do? If by chance, the doctor doesn't agree to help you or at least work with you in some way, then it's time to move on. There are plenty of other doctors around. Now go out there and make me proud!

[Kale]

This guy should get a medal

[Kale]

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