Deca vs Tren for joints

[Andros]

Does tren also give joint lubrication and collagen synthesis like Deca does?

[Property of Steroid.com]

Although both Tren as well as Deca are progestins, Deca stimulates collagen synthesis more (probably) because it has the added advantage of aromatization.

Actually, it stands to reason that Tren does, in fact, stimulate collagen synthesis. Tren also stimulates collagen synthesis, however, although it's not really talked about much because it does it (likely) through IGF mediated pathways.

You see, tren increases IGF-1 to a great degree, which ought to stimulate the growth of tendons, as we all know.

Endocrinology. 1989 May;124(5):2110-7.

Trenbolone alters the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to fibroblast growth factor and insulin-like growth factor I.

Thompson SH, Boxhorn LK, Kong WY, Allen RE.

Department of Animal Sciences, University of Arizona, Tucson 85721.

The potential role of satellite cells in mediating the effect of trenbolone [17 beta-hydroxyestra-4,9-11-trien-3-one (TBOH)] on skeletal muscle hypertrophy was examined. Young female Sprague-Dawley rats received TBOH injections daily for 2 weeks; growth, body composition, and the composition of selected muscles were assessed. Treated rats grew more rapidly and deposited less body lipid and more protein. The semimembranosus muscle from treated rats was larger and had approximately 60% more DNA per muscle than muscles from control rats. The addition of trenbolone directly to the medium of cultured satellite cells did not stimulate cell proliferation, nor did it augment the stimulatory response of these cells to fibroblast growth factor (FGF) or insulin -like growth factor I (IGF-I). In contrast, satellite cells cultured from TBOH-treated rats exhibited greater proliferative responses to FGF and IGF-I than satellite cells from control rats. In addition, serum from TBOH-treated rats stimulated greater cell proliferation in satellite cell cultures than serum from control rats. These experiments suggest that one possible mechanism responsible for the ability of TBOH to stimulate skeletal muscle hypertrophy may be through enhanced proliferation and differentiation of satellite cells as a result of the increased sensitivity of these cells to IGF-I and FGF.

PMID: 2707149 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
You will also note that Tren treated satellite cells showed an increased response to FGF (fibroblast growth factor). Again, as we know, (basic)FGF stimulates collagen synthesis:

Sports Med. 2003;33(5):381-94.The roles of growth factors in tendon and ligament healing.

Molloy T, Wang Y, Murrell G.

Orthopaedic Research Institute, St George Hospital Campus, University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia.

Tendon healing is a complex and highly-regulated process that is initiated, sustained and eventually terminated by a large number and variety of molecules. Growth factors represent one of the most important of the molecular families involved in healing, and a considerable number of studies have been undertaken in an effort to elucidate their many functions. This review covers some of the recent investigations into the roles of five growth factors whose activities have been best characterised during tendon healing: insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), transforming growth factor beta (TGFbeta), vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), platelet-derived growth factor (PDGF), and basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF). All five are markedly up-regulated following tendon injury and are active at multiple stages of the healing process. IGF-I has been shown to be highly expressed during the early inflammatory phase in a number of animal tendon healing models, and appears to aid in the proliferation and migration of fibroblasts and to subsequently increase collagen production. TGFbeta is also active during inflammation, and has a variety of effects including the regulation of cellular migration and proliferation, and fibronectin binding interactions. VEGF is produced at its highest levels only after the inflammatory phase, at which time it is a powerful stimulator of angiogenesis. PDGF is produced shortly after tendon damage and helps to stimulate the production of other growth factors, including IGF-I, and has roles in tissue remodelling.In vitro and in vivo studies have shown that bFGF is both a powerful stimulator of angiogenesis and a regulator of cellular migration and proliferation. This review also covers some of the most recent studies into the use of these molecules as therapeutic agents to increase the efficacy and efficiency of tendon and ligament healing. Studies into the effects of the exogenous application of TGFbeta, IGF-I, PDGF and bFGF into the wound site singly and in combination have shown promise, significantly decreasing a number of parameters used to define the functional deficit of a healing tendon. Application of IGF-I has been shown to increase in the Achilles Functional Index and the breaking energy of injured rat tendon. TGFbeta and PDGF have been shown separately to increase the breaking energy of healing tendon. Finally, application of bFGF has been shown to promote cellular proliferation and collagen synthesis in vivo.

Therefore, Trenbolone, by stimulating (b)FGF as well as IGF-1 - certainly would stimulate collagen synthesis. I don't know of anyone who claims tren healed any injuries...but the evidence is here to suggest it.

(*This is a reprint of a post I made at Quality Muscle, originally)

[vitor]

Intresting read!

This is not relevant to this thread at all, but if tren increases IGF so much, it should be able to cause hyperplasmia (creating new muscle cells) as well...

I wonder about how much a dosage of about 100mg tren a/day would increase IGF levels...If it would even come close to running a moderat cycle of igf(roughly 40-50mcg ed)...

[G-1000]

thank you Hook for the info.

[guest589745]

Awww, I wanted to post something like that


I never get to show off ><