reason why Eq is not recommended for 1st cycle?

**kobiack** · 03-01-2007, 09:33 PM

i think i've read why, can someone tell me why not? is it the chance of sexual sides if taken without test? i know everyone on this site (almost everyone) recommends test only for 1st cycle. but is eq an exception to the rule?
thanks.

**Benches505** · 03-01-2007, 09:36 PM

There really is no need for anything more than test for the first cycle. You will gain 20-30 lbs and then you have other stuff to toss in for the 2nd 3rd etc...

I got more from my first test only cycle than I did from stacking 5 things later. Fresh receptors are golden!

**DaIllstPlaya** · 03-01-2007, 09:56 PM

im goin to do test for my first cycle! i cant wait, read up alot on how it should be done

maybe you should try it to, from what ive read its the perfect begginer steroid ... then of course after your body reacts to it and all that god stuff, u can try out others, safely of course

**dece870717** · 03-01-2007, 10:13 PM

Eq only is not a good idea. Eq will lower your natural test, and the low test levels will make you feel very tired.

**hugovsilva** · 03-02-2007, 06:18 AM

I did eq with winstrol at the end with pretty good results and minimal sides (except for hairloss from winstrol). I ran proviron all the way and had no libido or energy problems. Have no problem in recommending it for 1st cycle although I think only test is better.
However I find eq a vry weak drug.

**SMAN12b** · 03-02-2007, 08:15 AM

OK here it is in a nutsshell:

The reason we recommend Test ONLY for the first cycle is because It is the natural hormone in us that we want to increase and most future cycles will have some Test in them, you want to LEARN how your body will react to each separate compound that you use and build from that.

If you started by using say.....DECA only...you may end up having more problems than it was worth to do. BUT if you start with TEST, you should have NO sexual side effects, you can learn how your body reacts to more TEST, THEN you can add one compound the next cycle like Deca with the Test and the problems you would have had with Deca alone will be gone because you are using some test with it.
This is the same for EQ or any other compound

Do you HAVE to do a Test only first cycle ?? NO Is it the better way to start off in this world of Anabolics ?? ABSOLUTELY !!

Hope this helps

**Slowhand** · 03-02-2007, 11:27 AM

^^agree

**jagdpanther** · 03-02-2007, 11:52 AM

I agree with SMAN12B 100%. In addition Equi has a very long half life, longer then deca 's half life. Although sides are usually minimal from Equi if you were to get any you'd half to wait a long time for it to clear your system. The long ester has another ramification, the time between your last shot and starting PCT is longer. To me that means a longer time with low anabolic hormone levels.

I think Test Enanthenate is a good place to start for the reason SMAN stated and the length of the ester is also good for a beginer. Proprionate injections everyday for a beginer would be to much becuase of all the new places you'd have to learn to shoot in a short time. The enanthenate only needs to be shot twice a week so you can start with the glutes. Once you've mastered the glute shot you can rotate in a quad and eventually work in delt shots.

When using an enanthenate the time between last shot and PCT is shorter then with either deca or Equi, which is a bonus and if for any reason you have deal with sides or decide you need to come off because of the sides the out of system time is shorter.

If I could do my first couple of cycles over again, my first would be Test E, and my second would be Test E and Test P. I'd use the Test P to front load in the first couple of weeks along with taking Test E. Then at the end of the cycle I would stop the Test E three weeks before my planned PCT and just shoot Test P for 2.5 weeks allowing the test levels to stay relatively high whicle allowing the Enanthenate to leave my system.

IMO learning to deal with the issues of different ester lenghts is as important as learning to deal with hormones that have different bases.

Jagdpanther

**kobiack** · 03-02-2007, 07:25 PM

okay, i hear ya. test e is an easier compound to use. but the idea of having a rule about what to suggest to everyone doesn't sit right with me. different strokes for different folks... i mean me personally, (i too, am considering my first cycle...) from what i've read, i think i could manage the sides from eq alot better than test. that might not sit well with a lot of you but... i would rather have a steady rate of gains i can keep for my first cycle. i'm not that big on stretch marks and if i put it on, i like keeping it on. that's why i haven't used aas in the past.

**deadliftin00** · 03-02-2007, 08:02 PM

eq only will bottom out your test levels with no replacement. And doing an eq only cycle - you will lose your gains just like test when you come off - that is from experience. And, while on eq, you will have little to no testosterone in your system which is going to hinder the EQ gains. I don't think you'll find a single person here out of hundreds who are going to tell you to do an EQ only cycle for *any* cycle, ever. If your looking to not do test your first cycle, I would really only recommend a 5 week Tbol only cycle... that is easily managable and no injections.

We are not saying there is a rule for what everyone should do first cycle, but you're talking to some pretty experienced dudes. Why learn it the hard way when you have a site like this to benefit from everyone's experience? To be honest bro, there aren't that many "different strokes" when it comes to a first cycle of juice... There are actually very few "strokes". All the options come later when you know what your doing, can manage sides and PCT properly, and know what your body reacts to.

btw, the sides from test at a first cycle dose should be near non-existent, take nolva throughout if necessary and you will be fine. And your talking about stretch marks and shit... A first cycle dose of Test E is not going to blow you up that huge, and it is going to take place over a couple months not days. Read up bro!

**Nickster#1** · 03-02-2007, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by jagdpanther

I agree with SMAN12B 100%. In addition Equi has a very long half life, longer then deca 's half life. Although sides are usually minimal from Equi if you were to get any you'd half to wait a long time for it to clear your system. The long ester has another ramification, the time between your last shot and starting PCT is longer. To me that means a longer time with low anabolic hormone levels.

I think Test Enanthenate is a good place to start for the reason SMAN stated and the length of the ester is also good for a beginer. Proprionate injections everyday for a beginer would be to much becuase of all the new places you'd have to learn to shoot in a short time. The enanthenate only needs to be shot twice a week so you can start with the glutes. Once you've mastered the glute shot you can rotate in a quad and eventually work in delt shots.

When using an enanthenate the time between last shot and PCT is shorter then with either deca or Equi, which is a bonus and if for any reason you have deal with sides or decide you need to come off because of the sides the out of system time is shorter.

If I could do my first couple of cycles over again, my first would be Test E, and my second would be Test E and Test P. I'd use the Test P to front load in the first couple of weeks along with taking Test E. Then at the end of the cycle I would stop the Test E three weeks before my planned PCT and just shoot Test P for 2.5 weeks allowing the test levels to stay relatively high whicle allowing the Enanthenate to leave my system.

IMO learning to deal with the issues of different ester lenghts is as important as learning to deal with hormones that have different bases.

Jagdpanther

**SMAN12b** · 03-02-2007, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by kobiack

okay, i hear ya. test e is an easier compound to use. but the idea of having a rule about what to suggest to everyone doesn't sit right with me. different strokes for different folks... i mean me personally, (i too, am considering my first cycle...) from what i've read, i think i could manage the sides from eq alot better than test. that might not sit well with a lot of you but... i would rather have a steady rate of gains i can keep for my first cycle. i'm not that big on stretch marks and if i put it on, i like keeping it on. that's why i haven't used aas in the past.

It is NOT a rule ! It is just the smartest way to go. Its your body, stick whatever you like in it. Its just easier to deal with ONE compound on your first go with this then several. WHy would you use a compound that is gonna shut down what your body naturally produces and NOT replace it with at least a minimum amount to keep your Pee Pee going!

But again, its your body....good luck with which ever you choose

**kobiack** · 03-06-2007, 06:38 PM

thanks for your input guys i really appreciate it. if a low dose of test won't produce any sides than can you simply HRT through a cycle of EQ or (i'm expecting to get flamed) even masteron ? i mean, if i already have good size, and just wanted that sliced look for a summer. come on guys you're saying there is no other "safe" way to use? and we are talking on a scale here, i hope all of you know that...

**kobiack** · 03-06-2007, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by deadliftin00

If your looking to not do test your first cycle, I would really only recommend a 5 week Tbol only cycle... that is easily managable and no injections.

btw, the sides from test at a first cycle dose should be near non-existent, take nolva throughout if necessary and you will be fine. And your talking about stretch marks and shit... A first cycle dose of Test E is not going to blow you up that huge, and it is going to take place over a couple months not days. Read up bro!

we're talking about "safe" and you go and suggest a liver toxic aas?!?!? i'm not sure what you consider safe man...

hey bro, i don't know you but if you're having trouble keeping gains from eq than maybe it's something besides eq... i'm just sayin, if you look at the profiles and shit... ask people, all i've heard is that it's easier to keep. so whatever.

and don't try and tell me that my own personal observations are incorrect. just cause i haven't used before doesn't mean i haven't been around people that have. i'm not a ****in' sheep. i've been around people that use aas since 9th grade junior high. i'm 24. and i still haven't used. so save that shit for someone who will take your opinion. your choice...

i still appreciate your response. i don't agree with some of what you said but, who cares?

**J*U*icEd** · 03-06-2007, 07:24 PM

ive done an EQ and winstrol only cycle for 14 weeks and gained a good 18-20 lean pounds... kept 12- 15 of them... i had good success with it... it's just that most people including myself like test better...

**kobiack** · 03-06-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Nickster#1

i was thinking the same...

**deadliftin00** · 03-06-2007, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by kobiack

we're talking about "safe" and you go and suggest a liver toxic aas?!?!? i'm not sure what you consider safe man...

hey bro, i don't know you but if you're having trouble keeping gains from eq than maybe it's something besides eq... i'm just sayin, if you look at the profiles and shit... ask people, all i've heard is that it's easier to keep. so whatever.

and don't try and tell me that my own personal observations are incorrect. just cause i haven't used before doesn't mean i haven't been around people that have. i'm not a ****in' sheep. i've been around people that use aas since 9th grade junior high. i'm 24. and i still haven't used. so save that shit for someone who will take your opinion. your choice...

i still appreciate your response. i don't agree with some of what you said but, who cares?

1.) I ran T bol for 3 months taking milk thistle while drinking alchohol on weekends. Had my liver function tested in the end, it was perfectly normal. A 5 week tbol cycle w/ milk thistle is going to be fine for your liver. I have yet to see someone who used it reasonably and had liver problems.

2.) I wouldn't be taking advice from anyone who started taking AAS in 9th grade because that is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.

3.) I wasn't really focusing on what was safe. "Safe According to prevailing research Testosterone is one of the "safest" compounds around. "Safe" is an extremely objective term.

I'm sorry you disagree with my opinion, but you posted a question asking about the reasons why EQ only isn't recommended for a first cycle. People are going to post their opinion on your question, that is what the board is for.

**kobiack** · 03-06-2007, 08:03 PM

okay... when did i say i was taking advise from people who started aas in 9th grade? and besides, when we're talking about "the dumbest things heard in a lifetime", that is also an extremely subjective term. i'm sure your statement below about taking a liver toxic aas and drinking every weekend would fall into other people's "dumbest thing they've heard in their life" category. i know it did mine...
oh, and when i was asking for other people's opinions, i guess i should have explained more. i was looking for people that knew what they were talking about when it comes to aas. just cause it worked for you doesn't mean you have the knowledge to advise others.

Originally Posted by deadliftin00

1.) I ran T bol for 3 months taking milk thistle while drinking alchohol on weekends. Had my liver function tested in the end, it was perfectly normal. A 5 week tbol cycle w/ milk thistle is going to be fine for your liver. I have yet to see someone who used it reasonably and had liver problems.

2.) I wouldn't be taking advice from anyone who started taking AAS in 9th grade because that is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.

3.) I wasn't really focusing on what was safe. "Safe According to prevailing research Testosterone is one of the "safest" compounds around. "Safe" is an extremely objective term.

I'm sorry you disagree with my opinion, but you posted a question asking about the reasons why EQ only isn't recommended for a first cycle. People are going to post their opinion on your question, that is what the board is for.

**deadliftin00** · 03-06-2007, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by kobiack

okay... when did i say i was taking advise from people who started aas in 9th grade? and besides, when we're talking about "the dumbest things heard in a lifetime", that is also an extremely subjective term. i'm sure your statement below about taking a liver toxic aas and drinking every weekend would fall into other people's "dumbest thing they've heard in their life" category. i know it did mine...
oh, and when i was asking for other people's opinions, i guess i should have explained more. i was looking for people that knew what they were talking about when it comes to aas. just cause it worked for you doesn't mean you have the knowledge to advise others.

Listen man, whatever, have fun with your EQ only cycle. Notice not a single person has posted about their great EQ only first cycle, or why EQ only is a good idea. It's safe as hell, it's just pretty much a waste of time compared to other routes you can take. The people advising you have done entire cycles of EQ, as have I. We're trying to give you solid advice based on experience. I gave you the quasi technical reasons in my first response. Do you think bottoming out your natural test levels with no replacement is a good idea?

And frankly, you seem to be on quite a high horse of opinion for someone who has yet to do their first cycle. Nobody gives a shit if your cycle works if your a prick and show no respect for people taking the time to share their experience and opinion in your thread.

**kobiack** · 03-07-2007, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by deadliftin00

Listen man, whatever, have fun with your EQ only cycle. Notice not a single person has posted about their great EQ only first cycle, or why EQ only is a good idea. It's safe as hell, it's just pretty much a waste of time compared to other routes you can take. The people advising you have done entire cycles of EQ, as have I. We're trying to give you solid advice based on experience. I gave you the quasi technical reasons in my first response. Do you think bottoming out your natural test levels with no replacement is a good idea?

And frankly, you seem to be on quite a high horse of opinion for someone who has yet to do their first cycle. Nobody gives a shit if your cycle works if your a prick and show no respect for people taking the time to share their experience and opinion in your thread.

listen man, you've turned my thread into a bitch thread... now who's really not showing any respect. you jumped on my thread and tried to insult my intelligence for asking about an eq only cycle... and if you weren't paying attention, i was also bringing up the notion of HRT of a somewhat normal level of test and eq to cut. so take your sorry ass opinions elsewhere if you can't have a conversation with me without getting your feelings hurt. if i affended you,

tuff shit man, maybe you should consider not everyone is like you and would like to tone their OWN body the way they want to. and can you blame me for asking questions before getting into something like aas? i'm sure alot of the people you mentioned probably wish they did... only speculation. i'm sure everyone will correct me if i'm wrong.
peace dude.

**kobiack** · 03-07-2007, 06:44 PM

i'll have to start another thread to get the answers i want... thanks man.

**deadliftin00** · 03-07-2007, 09:58 PM

You're proposed cycle sucks. Re-read every post in the thread and take people's advice. Thats all people are going to tell you in you're next thread too, but good luck with that.

Lata.

**taiboxa** · 03-07-2007, 10:02 PM

the buck stops here.

eq is FINE for a first cycle.. infact it might be better than test IMO for one reason

IT DOES NOT COMPLETELY SHUNT ENDOGENOUS PRODUCTION OF TEST!
(i read like 40-60% suppression or something form bigklg)

easier to recover, less bloat, less sides since theres no giant flux in hormones.
but its weaker, lamer, and can increase BP significantly more than test.

either way IMO there is no wrong cycle just stupid ones. as long as u plan it out properly and have all the ancillaries on hand ur gold

**kobiack** · 03-07-2007, 10:05 PM

i think it's about making sure you're getting the right advise...
but, different strokes for different folks.

**Borat777** · 03-21-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by kobiack

i think i've read why, can someone tell me why not? is it the chance of sexual sides if taken without test? i know everyone on this site (almost everyone) recommends test only for 1st cycle. but is eq an exception to the rule?
thanks.

just run proviron throughout ur cycle and pct if u want and you wont have any sexual sides

proviron 25mg to 50mg a day

**No One Knows** · 03-21-2008, 05:33 PM

that guys banned and this thread is a year old

**Dog-Slime** · 03-21-2008, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by deadliftin00

eq only will bottom out your test levels with no replacement. And doing an eq only cycle - you will lose your gains just like test when you come off - that is from experience. And, while on eq, you will have little to no testosterone in your system which is going to hinder the EQ gains. I don't think you'll find a single person here out of hundreds who are going to tell you to do an EQ only cycle for *any* cycle, ever. If your looking to not do test your first cycle, I would really only recommend a 5 week Tbol only cycle... that is easily managable and no injections.

We are not saying there is a rule for what everyone should do first cycle, but you're talking to some pretty experienced dudes. Why learn it the hard way when you have a site like this to benefit from everyone's experience? To be honest bro, there aren't that many "different strokes" when it comes to a first cycle of juice... There are actually very few "strokes". All the options come later when you know what your doing, can manage sides and PCT properly, and know what your body reacts to.

btw, the sides from test at a first cycle dose should be near non-existent, take nolva throughout if necessary and you will be fine. And your talking about stretch marks and shit... A first cycle dose of Test E is not going to blow you up that huge, and it is going to take place over a couple months not days. Read up bro!

I got a stretch mark on my first test e cycle...