I smell a rat: sachet gear, was my EQ really test? Heres the bloodwork.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

I did 12 weeks of deca and eq for a shoulder surgery rehab cycle at mild doses. 200mg of each. originally i was gonna do 10 weeks, but i had extra eq so i finished it up and did a 12 weeker. At one point i had test E in there up to week 5 but dropped it after my nips went super sensistive.
I also decided in my current state of atrophy to try to score a script for test from an endo, and have my levels tested. I figured i could have my levels tested anytime after week 7 since the test e would be dwindled by then. well, here i am at a week an a half aftermy last shot of eq, and testosterone was 1846ng/dl!!!
Why would boldenone come up the same as testosterone? it wouldnt right?
That makes no sense. Boldenone is the only thing that would still be in my system in significant amount. Unless.....the lab is putting test in boldenone sachets and writing it off as eq! And yes, this is the original 5ml ones.
Im bewildered. Im on no antiestrogens either, and i would think 1846ng/dl of test would def give me bloat at least if not gyno, maybe? Maybe not.
So whats the deal? Is boldenone read the same as testosterone? And if so, what other roids also test as testosterone?

[AnabolicBoy1981]

come on ppl

[Dude-Man]

How long ago was your last enanthate shot?

[doittoit]

bold converts to test man. Ive had high test levels 1 month after my last shot of eq.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

Duse-man,my last test e shot was 7 weeks ago. theres no way that stuf would still be in me.

doittioit, i have never heard or read in any litiature of bold converting to test. I have read it aromatizes to estrogen, and reduces to dihydroboldenon, but not convert to test. Were you runnin test in that cycle?
Personally i think its could be very likely shadey lab tricks. maybe the eq sachets are hlaf bold and half test, or maybe just all test, who knows. This isnt unheard of. Its more common with faking deca though, and my last deca shot was about 3 weeks ago. Perhaps maybe the deca was faked, and im seein that? But 1846ng would still be too much for 3 weeks post shot even if that were the case.

[Dude-Man]

You know, i hadn't heard of it either, but a quick search on pubmed confirms that he's correct. I guess you learn something new every day. Testosterone is a primary metabolite of boldenone. Guess you learn something new every day.

[guest589745]

You know, i hadn't heard of it either, but a quick search on pubmed confirms that he's correct. I guess you learn something new every day. Testosterone is a primary metabolite of boldenone. Guess you learn something new every day.

****in crazy good thread though after all.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

You know, i hadn't heard of it either, but a quick search on pubmed confirms that he's correct. I guess you learn something new every day. Testosterone is a primary metabolite of boldenone. Guess you learn something new every day.

NOT SHYT! iM BLOWN AWAY. i will have to check this out! I have PUBMEDed BOLDENONE to high heavon, and nevr found NOTHIN on it. PUB MED had tons of stuff on nandrolone, oxandrolone, test, some stanozolol...but never BOLD. Maybe i, not using that site correctly?
This brings me to question.....why then use bold at all, if all it does is convert to test? And why dont people report big gains with eq if its converting to test? Here i was using it for possibly help my joints, and then it just eneded up converting to test, which has some joint benfit through estrogen but not much. This is unbelievable. This makes me wonder what other drugs do this.
Thanx guys. I was so pissed at my lab,lol. I thought they were bootleggin EQ!
Im goin to pubmed, excuse me.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

actually im searchin right now and im reminded of my previous seraches, where yes i did find stuff on bold, but its always bold metbaolites escreted in cow poop or pee. I cant really find the beef...as it were. Any links? or a copy and paste of a section?

[Dude-Man]

Journal of Veterinary Pharmacology and Therapeutics

Volume 23 Issue 2 Page 57 - April 2000


Characterization of steroid metabolites was based on HPLC retention, UV and mass spectra. The major testosterone metabolites were identified as androstenedione and 6β- and 16α-hydroxytestosterone. 6β-Hydroxymethyltestosterone was identified as a major metabolite in the methyltestosterone microsomal incubations. Several mibolerone metabolites were identified as monohydroxylated mibolerones as well as an oxidized mibolerone metabolite. Boldenone metabolites were identified as monohydroxylated boldenones, oxidized boldenone, and testosterone. This information should assist in the determination of anabolic steroid use in canines through the correlation of the urinary metabolites to the administered drug.


Don't worry about the "not using it right" thing. I've just got a shitload of practice.

[Pooks]

They are all synthetic testosterone in one way or another.

[Dog-Slime]

So boldenone converts to test? Then why does everyone cry about someone wanting to do an eq only cycle and why do most say they got no gains from eq?

[saturn08]

all steroids are derivatives of testosterone, if I am not mistaken, so most should boost test levels.

[Dog-Slime]

all steroids are derivatives of testosterone, if I am not mistaken, so most should boost test levels.

Then why is test needed to avoid erectile problems if they are producing test as a by product? Or am I reading this wrong and the test being used just couldnt tell the difference between boldenone and testosterone?

[Pooks]

Then why is test needed to avoid erectile problems if they are producing test as a by product? Or am I reading this wrong and the test being used just couldnt tell the difference between boldenone and testosterone?

It all comes down to what receptors the synthetic Testosterone binds too.
your body gets fooled just like those lab tests do.
Your body shuts down TEST production, no matter what u take, TREN, TEST, EQ etc..

there are different receptors, and DECA does not mimic natural testosterone enought to stick to the sex drive related ones.
but in addition the body does not produce TEST either, so nothing binds to those receptors, and we get erectile dysfunction.
On the other hand, maybe some still does because of this conversion, so maybe thats why some people are not shut down during a deca cycle, but most are.
Its pretty complex, and i'm sure I have poorly described the process here, and am wrong in some aspects...
Hopefully someone else chimes in , and corrects what i wrote, but this is sorta the gyst of it.

[Dude-Man]

all steroids are derivatives of testosterone, if I am not mistaken, so most should boost test levels.

This is very incorrect.

[shredzs]

wow, why and how does test bind to the sex receptor then???

[Pooks]

wow, why and how does test bind to the sex receptor then???

The more we write the more people will get confused. i write in layman terms, cause I am not good enough yet to do it in Scientific Mumbo Jumbo.
there is no "sex receptor"

there are 4 i believe receptors out there, and its a lot more complex than that too.
There are some really good threads out there about how it all works.
SEARCH FOR THEM.

[jagdpanther]

I have read the study on boldenone and testosterone metabolites. I believe it, but I wouldn't draw the conclusion that it heavily converts to testoterone if at all. Remember that the body is designed to recycle stuff. Boldenone is very similar to testosterone and very likely many enzmes that would break down Test would break down Boldenone.
If I recall correctly they were tracking the boldenone with isotopes. If the boldenone were broken down to more basic building blocks, the body would very likey use some of them to make test. This is not conversion but recycling. Based on the fact that boldenone is not a naturally occurring hormone in the human body, I doubt there would be a metabolic pathway specifically for converting large amounts of equipose into testosterone. The other problem with the study is that it does not quantify how much equipose was administered resulting in 'X' amount of testosterone metabolites.
All we know is the quantity is most likely significant enough to alter a dog's blood/urine test in the author's opinion.

As to why the original poster's test levels levels were elevated in the blood work. I don't know the specific methods of the test they preformed but I bet the test was not specific enough to distinguish between test and equi.
The molecular weight of the base hormones test: 288.4, equipose 286.4.
If they were using an antibody to 'tag' the testosterone it is very likey to bind with equipose as well because of the similarities in structure.

In summary I don't beleive there is enough evidence to say that boldenone is heavily converted in to testoterone.

Bcool,

Jagdpanther

[AnabolicBoy1981]

Journal of Veterinary Pharmacology and Therapeutics

Volume 23 Issue 2 Page 57 - April 2000


Characterization of steroid metabolites was based on HPLC retention, UV and mass spectra. The major testosterone metabolites were identified as androstenedione and 6β- and 16α-hydroxytestosterone. 6β-Hydroxymethyltestosterone was identified as a major metabolite in the methyltestosterone microsomal incubations. Several mibolerone metabolites were identified as monohydroxylated mibolerones as well as an oxidized mibolerone metabolite. Boldenone metabolites were identified as monohydroxylated boldenones, oxidized boldenone, and testosterone. This information should assist in the determination of anabolic steroid use in canines through the correlation of the urinary metabolites to the administered drug.


Don't worry about the "not using it right" thing. I've just got a shitload of practice.

thanx dude! you the man.

I also found one. But in the one i found it said the testosterone level was negligable from bold. However that was in cattle. So in humans its likely to be different and maybe we have alot more test conversion from bold.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

I have read the study on boldenone and testosterone metabolites. I believe it, but I wouldn't draw the conclusion that it heavily converts to testoterone if at all. Remember that the body is designed to recycle stuff. Boldenone is very similar to testosterone and very likey many enzmes that would break down Test would break down Boldenone.
If I recall correctly they were tracking the boldenone with isotopes. If the boldenone were broken down to more basic building blocks, the body would very likey use some of them to make test. This is not conversion but recycling. Based on the fact that boldenone is not a naturally occurring hormone in the human body, I doubt there would be a metabolic pathway specifically for converting large amounts of equipose into testosterone. The other problem with the study is that it does not quantify how much equipose was administered which resulted in x amount of testosterone metabolites.
All we know is the quantity is most likely significant enough to alter a dog's blood/urine test in the author's opinion.

As to why the original poster's test levels levels were elevated in the blood work. I don't know the specific methods of the test they preformed but I bet the test was not specific enough to distinguish between test and equi.
The molecular weight of the base hormones test: 288.4, equipose 286.4.
If they were using an antibody to 'tag' the testosterone it is very likey to bind with equipose as well because of the similarities in structure.

In summary I don't beleive there is enough evidence to say that boldenone is heavily converted in to testoterone.

Bcool,

Jagdpanther

GREAT post. are you a lab tech? I was thinkin the exact same thing. I agree with you that it would be unlikely for bold to be CONVERTED to test, and perhaps recycling is more what happens here after the molecule is broken down, yes that makes more sense. Becuase like you said, the body just doesnt have the speicific tools to do a conversion like that. For instance it has aromatase for testosterone to turn it into estrogen, and 5-alpha reductase to turn test to DHT. Bold can be aromatized, and reduced by 5 alpha, but to convert it to test would be like a backwards conversion, yes. Even converting estrogen back to test might not even be possible, who knows? So being that boldenone is a derivative of test(and not even a natural derivative, a man made derivative), its unlikely that the body would be able to turn it over. So im with the recycling theory on this one.
BUT, i like the anitbody "tag" theory even more. Are you sayin it definatly is possible for antibodies to tag simialarly weighted molecules, or is this your speculation?(and even if a specualtion, a good one at that!)
It could be possible both things are going on. I may be recycling some of the bold and remaking it into test(not the same as converting ppl!), and the antibodies may be picking up the same reading from the molecules.

Boldenone may be one of the few able to show elevated testosterone on a blood test, since bold is a "primary", (if you will), derivative of test, and moleculary weighs the same. As apposed to winstrol for example which is a "secondary" derivative of test, becuase winstrol is dervided from DHT, which again, is a derivative of test. You see? There were 2 steps there kinda. Now winny i doubt would make a testosterone reading elevated, but perhaps may elevate a DHT test. get me?
The confusing thing for some of our readers is that there are so damn many derivatives DERIVED from derivatives!lol. But really when you look at it its not that complicated.

[jagdpanther]

I'll get back to you bro. I have to run out the door. I was a bio major in college with a hard on for cellular biology, organic chem and the female nursing students that needed help with these subjects

b cool,

Jagdpanther

[frank2738]

i'm currently doing a test e and eq sachet cycle. i think u would be able to tell the difference between the two. the eq i have is a darker yellow and smells real oily. the test e is light yellow and odorless.

were u happy with your results at least?

[Dude-Man]

I guess i'll do a little more research and determine exactly what the method of conversion is. But this "recycling" thing is almost definitely the wrong direction. Testosterone is produced in the testes in response to LH. In order for "recycling" as you describe it to happen, this process would have to be active. When we're on cycle, that's just not going to fly.

Any enzymatic reaction occurs in both directions. For example, aromatase actually is responsible for a good deal of the testosterone seen in women. Chances are there's a similar sort of thing going on here.

When i detect compounds in samples, i don't use antibodies. Instead, I use HPLC and mass spec. They're more accurate. That's the method used in the study i mentioned as well.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

i'm currently doing a test e and eq sachet cycle. i think u would be able to tell the difference between the two. the eq i have is a darker yellow and smells real oily. the test e is light yellow and odorless.

were u happy with your results at least?

yeah i noticed the different color. the test is like pale yellow. same with the deca. the eq is amber colored and thicker. and yeah, it stinks more,lol.

results..well i healed like a monkey! shouldeers feel great!
it was a light therapeatic cycle if u remeber. Unexpectedly i still gained size in the abscesnce of lifting, but this must be intramuscular water retention. No bloat though

[AnabolicBoy1981]

I guess i'll do a little more research and determine exactly what the method of conversion is. But this "recycling" thing is almost definitely the wrong direction. Testosterone is produced in the testes in response to LH. In order for "recycling" as you describe it to happen, this process would have to be active. When we're on cycle, that's just not going to fly.

Any enzymatic reaction occurs in both directions. For example, aromatase actually is responsible for a good deal of the testosterone seen in women. Chances are there's a similar sort of thing going on here.

When i detect compounds in samples, i don't use antibodies. Instead, I use HPLC and mass spec. They're more accurate. That's the method used in the study i mentioned as well.

i didnt know that about aromatase.
gosh. im learnin good things from this thread here.
so ur a lab tech DUDE?

[jagdpanther]

I guess i'll do a little more research and determine exactly what the method of conversion is. But this "recycling" thing is almost definitely the wrong direction. Testosterone is produced in the testes in response to LH. In order for "recycling" as you describe it to happen, this process would have to be active. When we're on cycle, that's just not going to fly.

Any enzymatic reaction occurs in both directions. For example, aromatase actually is responsible for a good deal of the testosterone seen in women. Chances are there's a similar sort of thing going on here.

When i detect compounds in samples, i don't use antibodies. Instead, I use HPLC and mass spec. They're more accurate. That's the method used in the study i mentioned as well.

Hey Bro,

I know that most enzymes work in two directions and that frequently there are different control mechanisms in place that govern the direction like allosteric binding sites, substrate levels, and bioenergetics .
I agree that it is counter intuitive that one would be producing testosterone while on cycle. That is a good point. So 'recycling' as I describe it and as you like to put quotes around it is out

I'm not and don't claim to be familiar with the metabolic pathways of testosterone production and what becomes of it in the body. However everything they mentioned was either a precursor or derivative of testosterone and not test itself. So an enzyme that works on testosterone could work on boldenone and convert it to a derivative or for that matter even a precursor.

I know there are two classes of enzymes, absolute enzymes (specific to a single molecule) and I forget the term for the other, is it generic or relative? This is type of enzyme works on a variety of molecules that share a common feature. Hexokinase is an example of a 'relative' enzyme.
It is possible that a 'relative' enzyme working in in the other direction is converting the boldenone into a precursor of test. I'm not trying to prove I'm wrong or right here bro, just tossing up ideas for discussion, after all that is a method of learning.


I know what mass spectranomy is, I don't recall or know what HPLC is.
I agree that at the point where they identified specific compounds that is the method they used however to identify the origin of the compounds I'm pretty sure they used isotopes - that is what I recall. I tried looking up the entire article this evening through blackwell science but couldn't find it.

When I stated that i didn't know the method of analysis i was referring to
Annabolicboy1981's blood test for testosterone. If you are familiar with the
process it would be cool to give us an idea of how it works.

Thanks for clarifying and correcting me on a few things. I'm still not sure we are the same page but that is okay. Like I said I'm into learning things and not pissing contests -just don't want my post to be misconstrued.

b cool,

jagdpanther

[Pooks]

i didnt know that about aromatase.
gosh. im learnin good things from this thread here.
so ur a lab tech DUDE?

Hmmm.. I just noticed u said "gosh"
interesting..

[saturn08]

This is very incorrect.

sorry should I say all or most anabolic steroids are derivatives of testosterone? would that sound better Dude?

[Dog-Slime]

Well I believe about half of them are derivatives of dht.

[jagdpanther]

Well I believe about half of them are derivatives of dht.

DHT is a derivative of testosterone.

[Schmidty]

DHT is a derivative of testosterone.

DHT Di-hydro-Testosterone

[jagdpanther]

DHT Di-hydro-Testosterone

totally agree

[Dog-Slime]

I know what dht is... Was thinking maybe thats why he said "This is very incorrect" But looking back the part he was referring to as being incorrect was probably the "so most should boost test levels" and had nothing to do with what steroids are derived from.

[jagdpanther]

I think he was referring to all steriods being derivatives of test,
but maybe that is because I recently read an article about people being confused or not knowing the difference between stuff like glucocorticosteriods and Anabloic steriods. The article said even people in
medical field don't always get it right.

Anyway I knew what you ment.

I'm hoping Dude-man comes back with some of the metabolites and the pathways that alter the test. I'll try and look into it when i have time as well.
It is a good thing to have members that work in the bio/chem field for a living. I studied bio in college but that was a few years ago(decade) and don't work in the field.

jagdpanther

[saturn08]

I would like to know too, I have asked friends in the microbiology field, who are not experts on steroids, but what they basically told me was that anabolic steroids are derivatives of testoterone.

[jagdpanther]

I would like to know too, I have asked friends in the microbiology field, who are not experts on steroids, but what they basically told me was that anabolic steroids are derivatives of testoterone.

As far as I know that is correct, I've looked at the molecular structure of a few including test, boldenone, oxandrolone, nandrolone, trenbolone, and, winnie. The similarities far outweigh the differences. In my opinion Winnie had the greatest difference because of an additional carbon ring that included 2 nitrogens but you can still clearly see the testosterone foundation.

[Dog-Slime]

I think he was referring to all steriods being derivatives of test,
but maybe that is because I recently read an article about people being confused or not knowing the difference between stuff like glucocorticosteriods and Anabloic steriods. The article said even people in
medical field don't always get it right.

Anyway I knew what you ment.

I'm hoping Dude-man comes back with some of the metabolites and the pathways that alter the test. I'll try and look into it when i have time as well.
It is a good thing to have members that work in the bio/chem field for a living. I studied bio in college but that was a few years ago(decade) and don't work in the field.

jagdpanther

What is this?

[jagdpanther]

They are medications based on the steriod Cortisone and are used as anti-inflamatories. I used that example in my post becuase I recently had an abcsess in my throat and my doc eventually RXed both antibiotics and a glucocorticosteriod.
Neither helped and the nose, ear, and throat specialist eventually had to stick a harpoon of a pin down my throat to drain the abcsess. They pulled ~5-6ml of puss out of the ****er. Not fun but I felt better afterwards

[WontQuit]

Hey all I am no expert but to quote another thread on her by Anthony Roberts...


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199802

Great thread here by the way I am learning alot.