First cycle all planned out. Would like some opinions!

[Atomini]

Hey all, i'm considering the use of AAS at the moment after having done a good 6 months of consistent research on this subject until i'm blue in the face. Thus I finally feel i'm ready for a first cycle. The goal of my cycle is simply to build quality muscle mass that I can KEEP once I am off the stuff. That means first of all, the use of mild anabolics with androgenic activity and side effects kept to a minimum, and secondly, the use of the lowest dosage possible along with a very abbreviated cycle length. You'll see what I mean when I outline my cycle (which isn't much, really). As stated earlier, i've done my research and have chosen which steroids to use based on what I feel is good for me as a first-time beginner cycle. Therefore, the only opinions and advice I seek are mainly from experience, of which I have none. That is why I am coming here and asking for opinions. In any case, here it is:

3 week cycle
- 1 shot of 150mgs Primobolan Depot once a week for the 3 weeks
- 3 tablets of Anavar daily for the 3 weeks. Each tablet is 10 mgs, which means this is 30 mgs a day
- One 1500 I.U. shot of hCG after the cycle depending on if it is needed at the time
- Proviron/Nolvadex kept on hand just incase

Okay, i'll wait till you stop lau***ng at me, but there you have it, and i'll explain why I chose to do this. I want to start off my steroid doses at the lowest possible while still eliciting a fairly good anabolic effect. The reason for this is because (correct me if i'm wrong) each time a cycle is done, the body requires more each time in order to produce results. The reason for such a short cycle length (3 weeks) is because from what I have read, the greatest gains come when the receptors are fresh. Why not make the most of this precious window of opportunity and then get out and get clean. Naturally, gains won't be massive due to the abbreviated cycle length, but that's what I want, because smaller gains are much easier to maintain and keep. I don't want to put on 30 lbs. and then lose 20 of them (and chances are I could lose the last 10 as well because I would come off very catabolic and crash). But a gain of 5-10 lbs. in 3 weeks? That the body can handle. As said, I want to have minimal HPTA suppression, and be able to keep what I gain.

As for the actual drugs used, as you can see, I have stacked two steroids that do not aromatize and both have very minimal androgenic effects. This is simply due to the fact that it's a beginner cycle, and I don't think I could handle any of the heavy hitter steroids out there like Dianabol or something like that for my first cycle. Besides, both Anavar and Primobolan do not come with water retention (due to no estrogen from aromatization), so the weight gained will be pretty much all muscle. Because of the 3 week cycle and low doses, I may not need hCG, but I am going to keep it just incase I need a shot after the cycle to kick the old balls back into testosterone production. The addition of Proviron or Nolvadex is a 'just incase' scenario that the steroids do aromatize, and this is where I need experienced users to chip in with some advice on that. Do I really need to keep Proviron or Nolva on hand?

Any other comments, suggestions, and advice is welcome! Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I forgot that I can't put brand names up, sorry.

[Johny-too-small]

5-10lbs can be done natty with good diet and training.

I personally think your cycle stinks and is a total waste. I doubt you gain very much at all from it. It judt might takes 3 weeks for the var to even start working.

I gained 25lbs from my first test cycle and lost 5lbs. boo-hoo.

[BOUNCER 01]

10-12 weeks on test enan seems to be a popular first cycle.

[Tuna11]

same here. I just came off a 12 week cycle of test enan at 500mg/week and made great gains. It was first cycle and I loved it. Doing pct right now and have not really lost much. Good luck

[Haro3]

horrible cycle and your reasoning isnt very accurate either. i'd say stick around and do ALOT more research

3 weeks is not long enough AT ALL (atleast not at those dosages and or those drugs)
30mg a day of var is a waste of $$ i wouldnt run it any less than 100mg ed but thats me.....
and even if you did run it ur pct is horrible one shot hcg? jus use clomid.....

[Titleist]

5-10lbs can be done natty with good diet and training.

I personally think your cycle stinks and is a total waste. I doubt you gain very much at all from it. It judt might takes 3 weeks for the var to even start working.

I gained 25lbs from my first test cycle and lost 5lbs. boo-hoo.

I agree. 5-10 pounds can be put on easily with a change in diet. However, if you are set on using AAS Test should be your first cycle. That is what everyone will tell you. Go with either Test Cyp or Enanth and inject 2x a week. If you are wanting to keep your cycle short and don't mind frequent injections you could go with Test Prop for 5-6 wks. Cyp and Enanth are longer esters so a cycle shorter than 10 wks is not as beneficial.

[Booz]

150 mg primo weekly will do nothing for you watso-ever mate and for three weeks???
you need to go and research some more my freind,sorry but as the abouv has stated the cycle stinks............

[gigem]

i agree your wasting money and time my first cycle was 500 mg test cyp for 10 wks gained about 22 lbs lost about 8 of that dont make it too difficult your going about it the right way and getting advice from veterans so to speak

[jagdpanther]

Atomini,

You have obviously put some time and thought into your planned cycle and post. I appreciate that. I've been looking in to shorter cycles to try and avoid sides(acene) but have never done one as short as three weeks. I can tell that from my experiance I usually don't start to see dramatic improvement until weeks 8-10. Before that there is improvement but it is gradually building.
It is also around weeks 8-10 that I start to see side effects (in my case acne) becoming more pronounced. In fact that is why I cut my last cycle short at the ten week mark instead of following through to week twelve. I was content with my progress at that point and I pulled out before the acne got really bad.

Obviously cycle length alone does not determine growth or severity of sides. The compounds you select and the dosage you run them at plays a large factor. You've selected Anavar, which I love, as one of your components.
I've never run it at less then 60 or 80mg ED for 4 weeks. If it was my intent to put on 5-10 lbs of lbm I don't I could do it with 30mg Anavar ED for three weeks. Typically anavar increases my strength but not nessecarily my size by much. I've used it in stacks with Test prop, NPP,and masteron where I wanted leaner muscle gain and it hopefully worked synergistically with the other compunds. I relied more on the test and nandrolone for size and the anavar for more strenngth to push more weight. I've also used Anavar during
the last month of a cycle. It was used in conjunction with test prop and tbol, primarily to keep my anabolic/androgenic hormone levels up while the longer esters cleared my sytem before starting PCT. Other then strength I think it improved my vascularity.
I have not tried primobolan. The best I can compare it to is my experiance with Masteron. People who have done both have reffered to Masteron as the poor man's primobolan - true or not i couldn't tell you. Masteron for me is like anavar in that I don't think I grew much from it and I have run it at up to 350mg a week (that was actually the enanthenate version). I feel it did increase my aggression which aided me in growing or maintaining by helping me work harder in the gym. It also may have helped me cut up a little. I have never run it with out some form of test simultaneously.

As side note to the best of my knowledge theories on fresh androgen receptors and androgen receptor down regulation while on cycle is garbage and myth. In fact test can increase the number of androgen receptors and estrogen if I recall correctly upregulates androgen receptors. I think if people see diminishing gains during a cycle it is more likely due to the body attempting to find a homeostassis between anabolic steriods and catabolic steriods.

As for what I would recomend for a first cycle? A moderate dose of test -maybe 500 mg a week with nolvadex or an AI if you are paranoid about gyno and bloat. Test proprionate would be my first choice if you are worried about bloat but based on your previous selection I think you may be understandably needle shy. In that case Test Enanthenate could be shot just twice a week. I would run the cycle for at least 8 weeks.

I'm still tweaking my PCT. In the past I have used hcg and clomid. The results with clomid have been unsatisfactory and many have informed me that they get better results with less sides from nolvadex and or an AI like aromasin or adex. That is what I will be doing for PCT after this cycle.

I really do not think you will see the results you are hoping for from the cycle you outlined and I think your time and money could be better spent on Test.


good luck,

jagdpanther

[Atomini]

Thanks for that greatly informed reply, jagdpanther. You've answered most of my questions. But this has brought up a few other questions I have.

To tell you the truth, I am not very fond of Nolvadex, because everything I have read states that Nolva only blocks estrogen at the receptor sites in breast tissue. I have heard that Proviron is a much better choice than Nolva in that it is directly an anti-aromatase. However, I would be much more likely to take both at the same time, with each drug attacking the estrogen problem at a different angle. Have you used Proviron and are these claims as true as they are made?

My problem is that I really don't want the bloating effect, as it's just useless weight. The weight I want to see rise on the scale is lean mass, not water being retained in tissue alongside that. Of course, with any steroid that converts to estrogen, there will always be bloating. The only way to deal with that is to use an anti-aromatase while being on those types of steroids, as you stated. And that is why my first choices were Primobolan Depot and Anavar.

[jagdpanther]

I get some bloat when using either test proprionate or test enanthenate, although more from the test E. I have always run an AI with Test because I'm gyno paranoid. I have used both Arimedex and Femara and still got bloat - not as bad though I'd imagine. No one wants bloat but for me it goes with the terrain. I have never been impressed by gains on the scale nor have I considered bloat to be part of the gains -its just a temporary thing -you shed it when you come off. I'm more interested in body composition and seeing numbers move in the weight room. I'm not huge (6', 210lbs at 38) and although I find size impressive it is not what I want for myself. I like playing sports and I'm more into improving my power/weight ratio.

I have used proviron but for a different reason then Aromatase supression.
So I can't comment on how effective it is at that role, I was running Femara as my Ai at the time. Honestly I don't think the bloat is that much of an issue if you will be using an AI. Losing the bloat after coming off is almost like a bonus - I see improvements while on cycle then after coming off I look forward to seeing what I really look like with the water gone.

good luck,

Jagdpanther

[SVTMuscle*]

man you guys like typing

[jagdpanther]

man you guys like typing

HA HA! You know for all I wrote I basically didn't say anything more then the rest of the bros. USE SOME TEST!

Jagdpanther

[Johny-too-small]

I think someone wants to be a mod.

[jagdpanther]

I think someone wants to be a mod.

Does the job pay?

After edit: Johnny how is your last endeavor holding up?

[SVTMuscle*]

No the job dosnt pay

[mkrulic]

Thanks for that greatly informed reply, jagdpanther. You've answered most of my questions. But this has brought up a few other questions I have.

To tell you the truth, I am not very fond of Nolvadex, because everything I have read states that Nolva only blocks estrogen at the receptor sites in breast tissue. I have heard that Proviron is a much better choice than Nolva in that it is directly an anti-aromatase. However, I would be much more likely to take both at the same time, with each drug attacking the estrogen problem at a different angle. Have you used Proviron and are these claims as true as they are made?

My problem is that I really don't want the bloating effect, as it's just useless weight. The weight I want to see rise on the scale is lean mass, not water being retained in tissue alongside that. Of course, with any steroid that converts to estrogen, there will always be bloating. The only way to deal with that is to use an anti-aromatase while being on those types of steroids, as you stated. And that is why my first choices were Primobolan Depot and Anavar.

Keep diet in check and bloat will not be an issue. do it right or dont do it. primo has the enanthate ester attached, 3 weeks is too short for that ester. every cycle needs test. if this is your first cycle, stick to test like already stated.

[Johny-too-small]

Does the job pay?

After edit: Johnny how is your last endeavor holding up?

Smooth, baby, smooth.

[jagdpanther]

Smooth, baby, smooth.

Good to hear bro.

[jagdpanther]

No the job dosnt pay

Figures the really fun stuff never does