Looking for Help, and Guidence Not Rips...Please!!!!

**jzman350** · 03-20-2007, 08:11 AM

OK,

First off, I am a newbie and have been doing research on here for a while and I am ready to try a few things but want to run it throught the experts first.

Stats: 6 ft, 198 lbs 26 years old, training for 7 years, former military.

I am not going to lie and I will take rips for this but I dont want to inject myself so thats why I am staying oral untill I find a workout buddy that wants to inject.

I have good muscle tone, in back,chest and arms, no real abs and run everyday.

I have been taking Clen . for a few weeks to cut BF and its working. I would like to take something that will produce good gains and well cut muscles. Not ready for a huge bulkup yet. I was reading about Dbol and I am getting mixed reviews. Plus what I need the most help on is a PCT.

So experts and I am sure rippers Hit me up.

Thanks,

J

**SMAN12b** · 03-20-2007, 08:14 AM

yeah, your gonna get ripped. If you've done research and STILL think and Oral Only cycle is a good idea, then steroids are NOT for you.
Injecting is Easy and the BEST way to go

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 08:16 AM

me hold back?

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 08:23 AM

sman you are full of crap buddy

**newconquest** · 03-20-2007, 08:29 AM

do some more research...go to ste....dotcom and read up...lots of info that will help you decide whats right for you...you have a lot of reading to do before you do anything
if you're looking for cut up muscle, i think dbol is a poor choice, read up man, read up...good luck

**jagdpanther** · 03-20-2007, 08:30 AM

I believe in shooting. IMO orals have their place but that space is not the base of a cycle, so I'll keep my mouth shut.

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 08:31 AM

now jz there are lots of oral options out there

oral cycles are limited to the length you can run them and the amount of compounds avaliable; where an inject cycle can run in to 15-20 weeks you want to limit you oral use depending on the compound to 8 weeks as a max and 4-6 as a standard.

youll hear all kinds of guys on here parrot info about liver problems just do a search for a thread called hepatoxicity by nark he explains that this problem is overstated on these forums.

also do a seach for a thread by me thats called oral only gains it will explain why all these dummies are wrong when they say oral gains are unkeepable.

now back to your cycle
anavar sound like it would be a good choise for you because it has fat burning properties and if you run your diet correctly you can make some good gains in muscle mass as well.

**MFT81** · 03-20-2007, 08:40 AM

I guess if I were going to run an oral it would be anavar ,

I would deff not run d-bol by itself, the gains just dont outweigh the sides IMO.......

**anabolicarms** · 03-20-2007, 08:41 AM

be a man inject

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Manpretty

sman you are full of crap buddy

hmm... can u elaborate on why a oral only would be as effective as a cycle that utilize oils/injectibles?

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by MFT81

I guess if I were going to run an oral it would be anavar,

I would deff not run d-bol by itself, the gains just dont outweigh the sides IMO.......

thats wat my ex gf did .. hmm.. interesting.. the most ideal oral only cycle is wat most women use

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

hmm... can u elaborate on why a oral only would be as effective as a cycle that utilize oils/injectibles?

yes i can and the anwser is in those threads that i suggested reading

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Manpretty

yes i can and the anwser is in those threads that i suggested reading

oh god.. yeah HEPATOXICITY lol
that is by far the last thing i would be worry bout when im downing tons of orals

have an HDL score of 2 is something i would be a lilmore leary about LOL

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

thats wat my ex gf did .. hmm.. interesting.. the most ideal oral only cycle is wat most women use

ps i know you arent gonna read those thread and im not going to explain but you know as well as i do you can make great gains from orals......inject in every cycle is a flawed theory esp looking at peoples rangeing goals....

stop stickin up for your boy sman he frequently misinforms people

**Johny-too-small** · 03-20-2007, 08:49 AM

Tbol 60 mg/ed for 6-8 weeks. For pct run nolva at 20 mg/ed for 2 weeks. With good training and diet you could see and keep 12 pounds easy. Tbol is great for pumps and vascularity.

However, once you jab, you'll never run an oral only again.

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 08:54 AM

^^^^that is another option johny is right even those i personally didnt like that cycle, it has work well for alot of people

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Manpretty

ps i know you arent gonna read those thread and im not going to explain but you know as well as i do you can make great gains from orals......inject in every cycle is a flawed theory esp looking at peoples rangeing goals....

stop stickin up for your boy sman he frequently misinforms people

oh i know lol i have never EVER bashed an oral only cycle (even if they are hell on ur lipid profile), you can ask anyone on here that has known me for an extended period of time and they will tell u that i am the last person you will ever see fallowing the norms of aas protocols that are commonly practiced. i wasnt disagreeing w/ you so dont go all "defiant child" on me. i was just inquiring as to why you were so diligent about an oral only cycle being effective. its wat i do, if u look around, you will notice i like to see if people can back up the info they give, which most cant...and i know of the thread you are talking about as there are quite a few very well composed threads on utilizing orals only to attain effective gains and retaining them as well.

the whole concept of AAS is almost COMPLETELY subjective and any argument can be made and w/ proper backing its hard to be WRONG.

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 08:57 AM

also, please do not compose a declarative statement making an inclination that i am ignorant in any manner towards aas, thank you.

**D-Money** · 03-20-2007, 09:00 AM

I think if you wanna run an oral, d-bol is a great one (contrary to popular belief). I feel you can make gains of any thing, if your Diet and PCT are on point. Make sure you study up more before you put these drugs in your body. I aint gonna rip you for not wanting to use an injectable. But testosterone is a great place to start, as it is naturally whats in your body. You only have to shoot a long acting test twice a week. If it was so painful or terrible why are so many guys doing this. Think about it. Listen to the mods and vets when they tell you injectables are more effective in the long run. A good beginners cycle would look like this:

Week Testosterone (Cypionate or Enanthate ) (optional) Dianabol
1 400 mgs 20 mgs/day
2 400 mgs 20 mgs/day
3 400 mgs 20 mgs/day
3 400 mgs 20 mgs/day
4 400 mgs 20 mgs/day
5 400 mgs
6 400 mgs
7 400 mgs
8 400 mgs
9 400 mgs
10 400 mgs
11 400 mgs
12 400 mgs

Plus PCT of your choosing. Good luck, and welcome.

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 09:15 AM

hahaha that was in thank you for smoking documentary "any argument can be made and w/ proper backing its hard to be WRONG"

anyway fine here are my arguments for advocating and oral only cycle

1) gains can be made over a 4-6 week course that are very close to 12 weeks of injects. the only downside to this if you take a look at the homostatis theory oral seem to be not as good a choice due to the lenght of time your body has to adjust to the new wieght.

2) your concerns about lipid level is valid however gear in general has a neg effect on these levels, and honestly i dont know how much higher an oral would push these levels comparitively. however i do know that for most normal lengthed cycles along with normal doses that your lipid values return to normal in 4-6 weeks obviously depending on the person

3) as you know hepatoxcity is overstated

4)some people arent ready for injects and are going to do oral anyway and id rather they do it safely

as i said the limiting factors of an oral cycle is typically
length
amount of compounds that are avaliable for stacking and what not

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

also, please do not compose a declarative statement making an inclination that i am ignorant in any manner towards aas, thank you.

wasnt going to ...... ive just read what sman has wrote in other threads and im not sure i like the way he gives his advice.....blanketing statments without any real substance or misinformation.....you however havent made (that ive seen ) any of those type of statments

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Manpretty

hahaha that was in thank you for smoking documentary "any argument can be made and w/ proper backing its hard to be WRONG"

anyway fine here are my arguments for advocating and oral only cycle

1) gains can be made over a 4-6 week course that are very close to 12 weeks of injects. the only downside to this if you take a look at the homostatis theory oral seem to be not as good a choice due to the lenght of time your body has to adjust to the new wieght.

2) your concerns about lipid level is valid however gear in general has a neg effect on these levels, and honestly i dont know how much higher an oral would push these levels comparitively. however i do know that for most normal lengthed cycles along with normal doses that your lipid values return to normal in 4-6 weeks obviously depending on the person

3) as you know hepatoxcity is overstated

4)some people arent ready for injects and are going to do oral anyway and id rather they do it safely

as i said the limiting factors of an oral cycle is typically
length
amount of compounds that are avaliable for stacking and what not

have u ran heavy orals and had blood work done? its pretty impressive how ****d up things can get. and its not always up that it pushes them lol

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Manpretty

wasnt going to ...... ive just read what sman has wrote in other threads and im not sure i like the way he gives his advice.....blanketing statments without any real substance or misinformation.....you however havent made (that ive seen ) any of those type of statments

he does his job, he trys to suggest the most effective/safest way to do wat one is trying to do. cant really argue w/ that.
you want safe advice goto an endocrinologist.. u want real advice goto the biggest guy in the gym.

**Johny-too-small** · 03-20-2007, 09:28 AM

Lets answer the guys question, yeah? He needs advice, thats what we're here for anyway.

**MFT81** · 03-20-2007, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

thats wat my ex gf did .. hmm.. interesting.. the most ideal oral only cycle is wat most women use

Meh, I mean as far as an oral only,

plus i dont think she was running 60mgs a day,

The most ideal oral only would include an injectable........

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Johny-too-small

Lets answer the guys question, yeah? He needs advice, thats what we're here for anyway.

its not really an answerable question other than to tell him to keep researching and make his own decision..

and for my x using Var.. 20mg ED lol

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

have u ran heavy orals and had blood work done? its pretty impressive how ****d up things can get. and its not always up that it pushes them lol

some would say heavy you would say baby cycle....i think i remember you saying you ran dbol at 200mged correct?

heaviest oral i ran was 20mged M1T stacked with Phera-plex 30mged

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Manpretty

some would say heavy you would say baby cycle....i think i remember you saying you ran dbol at 200mged correct?

heaviest oral i ran was 20mged M1T stacked with Phera-plex 30mged

yeah i have gone above 200 to be honest but at 100mg of win ED i was able to get my HDL down to .. 3 or so .. my doc was like.. there has to be a mistake! lol

and that was while i was consuming high amounts of EFA's

**taiboxa** · 03-20-2007, 09:50 AM

and to note: just because i have ran higher doses than the average user doesnt mean i cant comprehend wat a high dose would be to the majority of the people on this forum.

**SMAN12b** · 03-20-2007, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Manpretty

wasnt going to ...... ive just read what sman has wrote in other threads and im not sure i like the way he gives his advice.....blanketing statments without any real substance or misinformation.....you however havent made (that ive seen ) any of those type of statments

You got a problem with my advice prettyboy, then don't read it.

I am here to help give the safest and smartest way of doing this.

And, sorry, but an oral only cycle JUST BECAUSE HE IS AFRAID TO INJECT HIMSELF, as stated by the poster, is NOT the reason to chose an oral only cycle. and does not show maturity enough to even be using AAS yet.

Instead, you just say sure, here swallow some of these and you will make gains........maybe you need to watch the advice you give and who your giving it to.

**MuscleScience** · 03-20-2007, 11:28 AM

The East Germans ran oral only cycles, look how there man-women did in the Olympics.

**SMAN12b** · 03-20-2007, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

The East Germans ran oral only cycles, look how there man-women did in the Olympics.

Granted, but they were monitored by professionals. and were top athletes to begin with

Not a newbie who just wants to take steroids but is afraid to inject himself

Orals are NOT the best way to go...doesn't mean they aren't done

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

You got a problem with my advice prettyboy, then don't read it.

I am here to help give the safest and smartest way of doing this.

And, sorry, but an oral only cycle JUST BECAUSE HE IS AFRAID TO INJECT HIMSELF, as stated by the poster, is NOT the reason to chose an oral only cycle. and does not show maturity enough to even be using AAS yet.

Instead, you just say sure, here swallow some of these and you will make gains........maybe you need to watch the advice you give and who your giving it to.

and you think this shows YOUR maturity???????? nice

blanket statement once again

because someone is ready to inject means that they are ready for roids....nice glad you showed your how knowledgable you are!!!!

this is smart thinking??????? sman how are you a mod???????
your an fing PARROT

ps everytime you make a mistake that i notice i will call you on it so get use to it

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 01:26 PM

pps care to anwser the question i possed to you in the other thread about hpta????
no??? didnt think you knew the anwser

**Titleist** · 03-20-2007, 01:28 PM

"Not Rips...Please!!!" Ironic that this would be the thread that all of this happened in...

**jagdpanther** · 03-20-2007, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Manpretty

because someone is ready to inject means that they are ready for roids....nice glad you showed your how knowledgable you are!!!!

that statement is not equivalent to " If your not ready to inject your not ready for roids"

I used to hate needles and would do stuff like close my eyes when getting blood drawn or getting novacaine at the dentist. When I first started to research roids and thought about the possibillity of using them I thought orals only no needles. After roughly half a year of research my first cycle started with testE and hgh.

I think that people who won't use needles haven't done the research, and if they haven't done the research they shouldn't use roids.
I believe it and I'm not a parrot. Anyway its not my fight.

**Outta Kontrol** · 03-20-2007, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by MrGetBig13

"Not Rips...Please!!!" Ironic that this would be the thread that all of this happened in...

**Manpretty** · 03-20-2007, 01:42 PM

i know its not equivalent its actually a stupid idea either way im trying to point this out

look at this way
there are people that are ready to inject and not ready for gear
there are people that are ready for gear and not willing to inject.....does that mean then that they are not ready for gear.....see what i mean

some people use orals as an intro to steroids and as long as you know all the info there is NOTHING wrong with an oral only cycle......

in fact tell me all the down sides and im sure i will be able to refute most of them

look iim not saying that injects arent better than oral im just saying orals can be run effectively and safely with the right knowledge

**jagdpanther** · 03-20-2007, 02:06 PM

[QUOTE=Manpretty
look iim not saying that injects arent better than oral im just saying orals can be run effectively and safely with the right knowledge[/QUOTE]

I agree orals can be done effectively and safely but injects are better.
My point from earlier was that not being ready to do injects means to me that not enough research has been done. If one hasn't done the research then one shouldn't use. Before I spent the months researching there was no way in hell I was going to stick myself.

Anyway i agree that giving safety advice to someone who is going to do it anyway is better then leaving them to their own devices.

**C_Bino** · 03-20-2007, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

The East Germans ran oral only cycles, look how there man-women did in the Olympics.

Well ya, obviously running ANYTHING is gonna be better than running nothing. This argument is pointless.

And I really dont think hepatotoxicity is overrated either. AAS have damaged my liver.