Hcg?

[Schmidty]

my first cycle. 20yrs old, 5'9, 195, 15%bf lifting hard 3-3.5yrs. This is a bulk cycle. Im not quite sure on the hcg dosage.

1-4 Anadrol50-50mg ED
1-12 Test-enan-500mg EW
1-12 Nolvadex -10mg ED

PCT
1-4 Nolvadex-20mg ED
1-2 Letrozole -.25mg ED
1-4 HCG-500iuED
1-2 Clomid-100mg ED
2-4 Clomid-50mg ED

I have natty gyno and if it get worse i will run the letro through the cycle using the gyno reversal thread.

[powerliftmike]

I run hcg every 3rd day 500iu during cycle with great success. I wouldnt run it ED for a month bro, especially when trying to recover the hpta and not extending nolvadex /clomid past its cessation.

[vicious cycle]

PCT
1-4 Nolvadex -20mg ED
1-2 Letrozole -.25mg ED
1-4 HCG -500iuED
1-2 Clomid-100mg ED
2-4 Clomid-50mg ED


The clomid and nolva is useless in that scenario.


IMHO, since you are doing TE; after your last shot of TE do 250iu hcg eod for three weeks. Then four weeks of nolva 20mg ed and two weeks clomid 100mg ed followed by two more weeks of clomid 50ed. So it'll look more like this:

1-4 Anadrol50-50mg ED
1-12 Test-enan-500mg EW
1-12 Nolvadex-10mg ED

PCT
12-14 HCG-250iu EOD
14-18 Nolvadex-20mg ED
14-16 Clomid-100mg ED
16-18 Clomid-50mg ED

This is just one of many ways...

[Schmidty]

my first cycle. 20yrs old, 5'9, 195, 15%bf lifting hard 3-3.5yrs. This is a bulk cycle. Im not quite sure on the hcg dosage.

1-4 Anadrol50-50mg ED
1-12 Test-enan-500mg EW
1-12 Letro-.50mgED
PCT
1-4 Nolvadex -20mg ED
1-2 Letrozole -.25mg ED
1-4 HCG-500iuED
1-2 Clomid-100mg ED
2-4 Clomid-50mg ED

I have natty gyno and if it get worse i will run the letro through the cycle using the gyno reversal thread.

Would it make more sence to run the letro through the cycle since i already have gyno or should i only drop the nolva and use the letro if the gyno starts to get worse?

[Snrf]

i'd go with letro bro, I love the stuff....

but tbh its a relatively mild cycle i really dunno if u'll need hcg .

[vicious cycle]

Would it make more sence to run the letro through the cycle since i already have gyno or should i only drop the nolva and use the letro if the gyno starts to get worse?

The latter I would think.

[Schmidty]

I didnt think i wuld need HCG eitherbut i really dont want to be shut down at all. And i wasnt sure if i should run letro through a ccle cause of the rebound and its not so good on cholesterole

[Schmidty]

Would it make more sence to run the letro through the cycle since i already have gyno or should i only drop the nolva and use the letro if the gyno starts to get worse?

or even aromisin, airmadex instead of letro because i still like beeing horney

[outlawtas]

1. HCG @ 250iu 2x a week (mon + thursday) is more than enough to fend of testicular atrophy. Lower doses over longer durations are safer than higher doses, as well as more effective (preventing the problem rather than "fixing")

2. I would forget about the letro. It's way to strong to be running it on a first cycle, Adex or aromasin should be more than enough to fend of gyno. You also have nolva on hand. I had puberty induced gyno as well and I can tell you it doesn't necassarily mean you will be very prone to steroid -induced gyno. Just make sure you have the proper ancillaries on hand. Remember, you NEED some estrogen in your system, it's how you were made. Estrogen also promotes muscle growth and aids in strength.

[Schmidty]

1. HCG @ 250iu 2x a week (mon + thursday) is more than enough to fend of testicular atrophy. Lower doses over longer durations are safer than higher doses, as well as more effective (preventing the problem rather than "fixing")

2. I would forget about the letro. It's way to strong to be running it on a first cycle, Adex or aromasin should be more than enough to fend of gyno. You also have nolva on hand. I had puberty induced gyno as well and I can tell you it doesn't necassarily mean you will be very prone to steroid-induced gyno. Just make sure you have the proper ancillaries on hand. Remember, you NEED some estrogen in your system, it's how you were made. Estrogen also promotes muscle growth and aids in strength.

Ill guess ill buy some aromasin to then

[outlawtas]

oh, I missed something.

It's much more effective to run your HCG during your cycle than afterwards. Think about it like this, you can pevent testicular atrohpy from ever happening (and possibly even continue some natural test prodcution) as opposed to letting them shrink up then "shocking" them back up to size.

so...

1-4 Anadrol (I would drop this if I was you, first cycle)
1-12 Test @ 500mg/wk
1-12 - Nolva ED
2-14 - 250 IU HCG 2x a week
15-18 - Your PCT

I would advise you to drop the Adrol, because you probably won't gain any more or less without it, from the looks of it you know how to eat/train. You'll probably put on like 20lbs on test alone.

[Schmidty]

oh, I missed something.

It's much more effective to run your HCG during your cycle than afterwards. Think about it like this, you can pevent testicular atrohpy from ever happening (and possibly even continue some natural test prodcution) as opposed to letting them shrink up then "shocking" them back up to size.

so...

1-4 Anadrol (I would drop this if I was you, first cycle)
1-12 Test @ 500mg/wk
1-12 - Nolva ED
2-14 - 250 IU HCG 2x a week
15-18 - Your PCT

I would advise you to drop the Adrol, because you probably won't gain any more or less without it, from the looks of it you know how to eat/train. You'll probably put on like 20lbs on test alone.

20lbs AAHHHHH YEAH

[taiboxa]

if i were to run hcg for pct purposes i would run it in an ED protocol 2 or so weeks prior to pct, as it can cause suppression to ur LH

[outlawtas]

Written by swale:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex , is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel , or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
__________________

[outlawtas]

20lbs AAHHHHH YEAH

20lbs gained, 10-15 kept doesn't sound of to me at all. I did that on my 2nd cycle

[t_machine7]

Not to hijack...but a good thing to do while running test would be run 250IUx2/wk and run the nolvadex at like 10-20mg ED during the cycle...and then stop the Hcg like within a week after cycle...then continue Nolvadex for how long?

[Schmidty]

Written by swale:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex , is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel , or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
__________________

Im gona rewrite my pct and cycle following this. thanks