upcoming cycle

[scribbs12]

I need a little help with my cycle... i almost got it down to what i want to take but im stuck on the pct... im not sure what to use.. im sure some will say use hcg but im not going to.. should i use clomid in my pct or does this look fine? any comments, suggestions, ideas would be great

1-12: test e
week 1= 500x2
week 2-12= 250x2

5-12: winny
week 5-12= 60mg a day

1-16 letro
week 1-16= .25 ed

12-16:tribulus
week 12-16 = just the dosage on the back of the bottle


12-16:nolvadex
week 12-13= 40mg
week 14-16= 20mg

thanks

[Drummerboy]

Actually, that looks alright to me. That is, if you have some experience under your belt and can justify a gram a week of test... what are your stats and past cycle experience? I hope im reading the doses right.... 2x500 a week is a gram a week right?

~DB~

[scribbs12]

This is my first cycle that i been putting together for the last month or so.. i was going to front load it with a 500x2.. and then week 2-12 is just 250x2.

and should i use letro at .25 2 weeks before i start? so i would be running letro for a total of 18 weeks..

20, 5'8, 194-198(my weights been jumping around that this week) 13-15bf
first cycle, train 4x a week

[Valac]

looks great to me, im thinkin bout doin somethin almost the exact same

[scribbs12]

looks great to me, im thinkin bout doin somethin almost the exact same

alright good.... so theres no need for clomid... to bring the boys back?.. or does only hcg do that?

[Drummerboy]

Ahh yes, the frontload. Sry i missed that. I dont see it being a problem. I always say a first cycle should only be a low dose test to feel things out. I dont recommend using AI's if you dont need them, but often people do need them, so its always wise to have them on hand in case you bloat too much (i dont mind some bloat, estrogen actually helps keep the joints healthy) or most importantly if you get signs of gyno. Thats all completely individual. You could start the letro at the beginning, as it'll take a bit for the test to start up, like a week or 2 at the earliest. Over all i think you've made a pretty good choice for a first cycle, if it were me, i wouldnt even bother with the front load, just go into it at 500/wk. Trust me, if you have good gear, it'll work.

~DB~

[Drummerboy]

alright good.... so theres no need for clomid... to bring the boys back?.. or does only hcg do that?

Nolva and an AI, in your case your using letro, the stronger of the AI's. You wont know how much your boys will acually shrink until you try, cause some shrink hard and some not so much. Your PCT looks pretty sound, the only thing i could see is that you run it a tad longer, only if you really need to tho... its hard to say, cause everyone is different...


~DB~

[scribbs12]

so i should just keep the letro on hand, but iv read alot of threads saying to use letro or nolva throughout the whole cycle..

and do you think tribulus will be good enough to bring up my natty test lvs.. i'll probably take double the dose on the back of the bottle--

[scribbs12]

should i throw in or replace something in my pct with aromasin?

[Drummerboy]

so i should just keep the letro on hand, but iv read alot of threads saying to use letro or nolva throughout the whole cycle..

and do you think tribulus will be good enough to bring up my natty test lvs.. i'll probably take double the dose on the back of the bottle--

Its entirely up to you - using AI's while on is pro-active in warding of water weight and gyno, however i dont advocate using more drugs than you need. For me, bulking and lifting heavy started to hurt when i took an AI cause of the low estrogen. I wish i knew just how your going to react to the cycle, then i could tell you if you would need it or not...

Ive never used trib...

[Drummerboy]

should i throw in or replace something in my pct with aromasin?

I guess the reason that aro goes better with nolva than other AI's is that it doesnt reduce the effect of the nolva to the degree that other AI's do. It doent mean the other AI's dont work well with nolva, it just means that the nolva is rendered less effective while using them. I think you should be ok with what you have IMHO

~DB~

[scribbs12]

the only thing i have taken before.. is superdrol and halodrol.. halodrold didnt do shit for me.... superdrol on the other hand gave me an extreme str increase.. on bench my max went from 265x2 i believe-- to 320x2... and i went from 210 to 225lbs in weight.. squat was crazy- i was able to do 365x6. and on superdrol i went to 455x6--i do sqats to 90 degrees.. i dont go all the way down-- but thats just how i reacted to superdrol.. so im guessing i react great to test possibly

[scribbs12]

I guess the reason that aro goes better with nolva than other AI's is that it doesnt reduce the effect of the nolva to the degree that other AI's do. It doent mean the other AI's dont work well with nolva, it just means that the nolva is rendered less effective while using them. I think you should be ok with what you have IMHO

~DB~

so instead of me using letro all the way through.. i should just stop using it for my pct and stick to nolva.. since u said it will make nolva less effective?

[Njord]

so instead of me using letro all the way through.. i should just stop using it for my pct and stick to nolva.. since u said it will make nolva less effective?

My recommendation: Don't use the Letro unless you feel you need it. Run Aromasin and Nolvadex for the pct. The tribilus can't hurt, but I don't know how effective it will be. If you do get some shrinkage while on cycle, they will return to normal once your body's natural test production kicks back in. Hcg is used to maintain size while on cycle, or to speed the recovery pre-pct.

[Dobie-BOY]

My recommendation: Don't use the Letro unless you feel you need it. Run Aromasin and Nolvadex for the pct. The tribilus can't hurt, but I don't know how effective it will be. If you do get some shrinkage while on cycle, they will return to normal once your body's natural test production kicks back in. Hcg is used to maintain size while on cycle, or to speed the recovery pre-pct.

theres your answer ^

[MartyMcFly]

My recommendation: Don't use the Letro unless you feel you need it. Run Aromasin and Nolvadex for the pct. The tribilus can't hurt, but I don't know how effective it will be. If you do get some shrinkage while on cycle, they will return to normal once your body's natural test production kicks back in. Hcg is used to maintain size while on cycle, or to speed the recovery pre-pct.

Good advice. The only thing I would add is do not start pct directly after last week of test e. Give it two weeks:

1-12 Test E
7-14 Winny
15-18 Pct

[Drummerboy]

I agree with Dobie-Boy... just clarify "dont use letro unless you need to" ... i guess you would need to use it if you had gyno symptoms or needed to lower water. Im 100% behind the AI/SERM PCT protocols fer sher.

~DB~

[scribbs12]

so wait 2 weeks after last week of test e...
14-18:tribulus
week 14-18 = just the dosage on the back of the bottle maybe 2x more


14-18:nolvadex--
week 14-15= 40mg
week 16-18= 20mg

and if i dont use letro during cycle should i use it during pct?? but then again i shouldnt use it with nolva... or should i just get some Aromasin --and to be honest with you.. i dont really know what that is... and what dosage i should take.. of it.. so if anyone can accept my lazyness.. and hook it up with the dosage on that one.. but if not its cool.. lol.. thanks again

[jagdpanther]

no estrogen is bad in many ways - hurts hdl/ldl ratios among other things.
To much estrogen is bad to as it has the tendency to make you want to store Sub-Q fat, in addition although it increases hgh production it reduces igf production. You can use a smaller amount of femara so you still get some estrogen or you can choose a less effective Ai like arimadex. I'm convinced that to little estrogen is bad and to much estrogen is also bad. Since serms only compete at certain recpetor sites they don't do anything to decrease the over all estrogen. that is why i would recomend an AI while on cycle.
in addition estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop for testosterone production, if you use an AI during PCT it will only help. although as stated before Adex or aromasin would be better choices then letro.

[scribbs12]

so would running aromasin at (X) dose throughout the 1-18weeks be correct??.. im confused.. because .. you say to use during cycle.. and then someone said to use during pct....so im kinda confused atm

[jagdpanther]

I've used femara amd adex on cycle.
femara .5mg eod
adex 1mg eod
i have also used femara during pct.

aromasin is supposed to be better for PCT then either of the other two and it supposedly is less harsh on hdl/ldl ratios.
i have never used aromasin so i have no direct experiance i can relate. from what i've read it is dosed in the 25mg range - just look in the pct forum - i'm sure it will be in one of the stickys. Either way aromasin is usually more expensive then femara or adex.

You need to taper all AIs as far as i know to avoid estrogen backlash. i have not seen a written protocol for tapering, and my attempts to taper in the past didn't work as well as i had hoped.

[SMAN12b]

PCT timing for Test E is 14 days after last shot
PCT timing for winny is 24 hours

Therefore run the winny 2 weeks past the test E and then start PCT the following day after last winny

I would not run the winny for 8 weeks though, 6 would be fine

[scribbs12]

PCT timing for Test E is 14 days after last shot
PCT timing for winny is 24 hours

Therefore run the winny 2 weeks past the test E and then start PCT the following day after last winny

I would not run the winny for 8 weeks though, 6 would be fine

so winny from week 7-14.. got yuh thanks..

but im still not sure on the ai thing... should i run it throught out the whole thing.. or run it for pct only.. and just have on hand in case of gyno..

thanks

[scribbs12]

bump...need just a little more advice as i will be starting my cycle in the next week or 2... when ever the rest of my gear comes in thanks..

[scribbs12]

but im still not sure on the letro/aromisan thing... should i run it through out the whole thing.. or run it for pct only.. or just have on hand in case of gyno..

thanks

[SMAN12b]

If you are showing signs of bloating you can run a little AI throughout the entire cycle. Or just if signs of gyno are present.

Def make sure you have it on hand and for PCT

[scribbs12]

okay thanks--
but i was wondering if you could give me a hint on the dosageing for aromsin during pct.. because i know letro is .25 all the way through.. but aromsin i have no clue..

and i heard its not good to run nolva with letro/aromsin?.. because it actually makes it weaker or something.. i dont recall the thread exactly..

[Njord]

okay thanks--
but i was wondering if you could give me a hint on the dosageing for aromsin during pct.. because i know letro is .25 all the way through.. but aromsin i have no clue..

and i heard its not good to run nolva with letro/aromsin?.. because it actually makes it weaker or something.. i dont recall the thread exactly..

Aromasin for pct is 20-25mg, I am running 25mg ED and it is working fine for me.
You can run Aromasin and Nolva just fine. It is the Letro/L-dex that will have a bad effect on the blood levels of Nolva (I'm just parroting this, haven't found anything outside of Anthony Roberts book to prove this).

[roodogg]

i like to run arimidex during cycle and aromasin during pct If you get sore nips the arimidex will curb the symptoms If you are gyno prone letro is the way to go, but arimidex is better imo if you are not gyno sensitive because it does not affect lipid profiles as much as letro will aromasin is very strong and should be run during pct for no more than 4 weeks @ no more than 25mg's ed