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Thread: Controlled Delivery By (Rick Collins)

  1. #1
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    Controlled Delivery By (Rick Collins)

    I just got his book today very good IMO. I tried warning some people on here that possesion is 9/10 of the law. Doesnt matter if you sign for it or not! I hope this thread educates you. Not trying to scare people on here, but enlighten them on ordering Internationally.


    If investigators want to bust you for a juice package, their goal will be to get you to take possession of the package. There are two reasons: 1) once you accept a package of contraband, you can be arrested for possessing it; and 2) the feds will have generally obtained a warrant to search your house that cannot be executed until you accept the package.

    That’s where your signature comes in. Signing for the package removes any argument that you didn’t accept it. Especially when it’s supported by the undercover agent’s testimony about the conversation that took place. “Are you Johnny Johnson?” You said, “Yes.” “Will you accept this package?” You said, “Of course!” and looked really excited when you saw the return address from China.

    Could accepting possession be proven in other ways? Absolutely. The issue is determined by looking at everything you did and said. In the conversation we just described, you said you were the person who intended to receive the package, and you explicitly stated that you would accept it. The absence of a signature won’t magically protect you!

    What if you refuse to sign, but try to accept the package verbally? A real courier wouldn’t give it to you if a signature was required, but let’s say this undercover agent courier would. Have you avoided an arrest and search? Of course not, because you’ve accepted the package! What’s more, your cagey behavior will be used against you to prove your knowledge of the illegal contents of the package – why else would you refuse to sign?

    I’ve seen a number of cases where the target gets a funky feeling about the delivery guy and rejects the package. The undercover courier will then do everything possible to get the package into the target’s hands, with or without a signature. It’s the only way to execute the raid. In one desperate case, the courier blew his cover and flashed a badge. He summoned his partner, and the two asked to step inside to talk about the package. The target told them he had no idea what was in the package and that they most certainly could not come into his house. The agents said the package contained suspected drugs, and asked if they could open it. “Do what you want, it’s not my package.” They opened it, and inside were 500 Anabol tablets. “My mistake,” one agent said. “These are okay. You can import a personal use supply. Here, you can take them.” Nice try. The target told the agent to stick the tabs where the sun don’t shine and avoided an arrest and raid by the eight other agents skulking in wait just off the property.

    Given the headaches presented by savvy suspects, law enforcers are taking a new approach: wiring the package to signal when it’s opened. When someone opens a package, that’s good evidence that he’s the one who knowingly intended to possess it, right? It might even be stronger evidence than signing for it. The application for the search warrant will request authorization to execute the raid once the signal goes off. Several jurisdictions have begun using electronic signaling devices, typically AT-4’s, to confirm that a target has opened his package. No part of the device is visible unless the package is opened. It makes no audible sound but transmits an alert signal to a remote receiver manned by the agents. These devices are perfect in cases where a signature request might spook the target. An AT-4 can make the difference between a botched operation and a valid arrest and raid. Be aware that it’s likely the wave of the future. [For a complete discussion of controlled deliveries, check out Legal Muscle].


    Rick Collins, J.D., a veteran lawyer and former competitive bodybuilder, is the author of the groundbreaking new book LEGAL MUSCLE: Anabolics in America, available through this site. [© Rick Collins, 2003. All rights reserved. For informational purposes only, not to be construed as legal advice.]

  2. #2
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    nice thread, good info to know and kinda scary(even though it's clearly not your intention).

  3. #3
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    Moral to this story is to buy domestic.

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    I quess one defense to take would be do not open package right away, wait a few days or longer. I would find it unlikely that the agency doing the surveillance can(will) lie in wait days or longer for you to open it. Just a thought.

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    Thanks Kfrost. It is scary on the things the US Goverment does to police are lifestyles. Pisses me off when our Goverment (U.S citizens) are targeted like we are a bunch of ******* crackheads.

    I think it's highly unlikely for people that get seizure letters to worry for the orders are under 50 mg's. Who knows though seems like they have the power to screw with whoever they want.

    I got a custom seizure letter 2 years ago. Never responded to it. My order was for over 200/ mg's. Never had "Big Brother" knocking on my door.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfrost06
    I quess one defense to take would be do not open package right away, wait a few days or longer. I would find it unlikely that the agency doing the surveillance can(will) lie in wait days or longer for you to open it. Just a thought.

    Good point, time is money and I seriously doubt they would wait for several days for a bust of personal use amount juice.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by testisbest
    Moral to this story is to buy domestic.
    Got to disagree - the moral of the story is keep as many different sources open and operating. Both international and domestic. If they scare everyone away from international then they will focus on domestic. We want to keep this a diverse industry with depth. Keep all options open. Hell i keep buying a few HRT products once in awhile, even though I don't need them and it is the most expensive way to go, just to support the industry. We want our supply lines to be like the heads of Hydra they chop off one head -we try and grow two new ones.

  8. #8
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    Jap I bet 3/4 of the members on this forum order internationally. Thanks to smarter packaging processes INT will never die *knocks on wood*

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagdpanther
    Got to disagree - the moral of the story is keep as many different sources open and operating. Both international and domestic. If they scare everyone away from international then they will focus on domestic. We want to keep this a diverse industry with depth. Keep all options open. Hell i keep buying a few HRT products once in awhile, even though I don't need them and it is the most expensive way to go, just to support the industry. We want our supply lines to be like the heads of Hydra they chop off one head -we try and grow two new ones.
    I agree. When I came on here HRT was the only way I thought of ever going. In just a few weeks, I have decided the more options I have the better I will be long term. And with the recent busts, HRT may not always be a viable option.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam F
    Thanks Kfrost. It is scary on the things the US Goverment does to police are lifestyles. Pisses me off when our Goverment (U.S citizens) are targeted like we are a bunch of ******* crackheads.

    I think it's highly unlikely for people that get seizure letters to worry for the orders are under 50 mg's. Who knows though seems like they have the power to screw with whoever they want.

    I got a custom seizure letter 2 years ago. Never responded to it. My order was for over 200/ mg's. Never had "Big Brother" knocking on my door.

    what do you mean under or over 200mg's. one single amp of sustanon is 250mg!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagdpanther
    Got to disagree - the moral of the story is keep as many different sources open and operating. Both international and domestic. If they scare everyone away from international then they will focus on domestic. We want to keep this a diverse industry with depth. Keep all options open. Hell i keep buying a few HRT products once in awhile, even though I don't need them and it is the most expensive way to go, just to support the industry. We want our supply lines to be like the heads of Hydra they chop off one head -we try and grow two new ones.
    I like the way you think, but I also like getting my gear a few days after I order it.

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    But like I've been told, unless you live in the middle of America (west or east coast you are ALOT safeer), oversea's packages are very rarely controlled, just seized. Domestic packages are the ones that are controlled the most.

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    nice thread bro!

  14. #14
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    Sorry half asleep. Meant to say ML'S Not MG'S

  15. #15
    Just a reminder, loose lips sink ships, the less said the better. unless of course we wish to begin a disinformation campaign

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagdpanther
    Just a reminder, loose lips sink ships, the less said the better. unless of course we wish to begin a disinformation campaign
    You mean some of ya'll actually order and use steroids? I thought this was a role playing forum. LOL, Steroids are bad.

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    nice post. thanks Adam.

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    but not everyone has a connection with domestic.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by testisbest
    You mean some of ya'll actually order and use steroids? I thought this was a role playing forum. LOL, Steroids are bad.
    haahaha yeah thats what i thought too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdm95lude
    but not everyone has a connection with domestic.
    I think that is a good thing.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by testisbest
    You mean some of ya'll actually order and use steroids? I thought this was a role playing forum. LOL, Steroids are bad.
    Nah I just really get in to my role playing. Life behind spread sheets can get so boring

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam F
    Thanks Kfrost. It is scary on the things the US Goverment does to police are lifestyles. Pisses me off when our Goverment (U.S citizens) are targeted like we are a bunch of ******* crackheads.

    I think it's highly unlikely for people that get seizure letters to worry for the orders are under 50 mg's. Who knows though seems like they have the power to screw with whoever they want.

    I got a custom seizure letter 2 years ago. Never responded to it. My order was for over 200/ mg's. Never had "Big Brother" knocking on my door.
    yeah the govt gets the best gear but they get it domwesticly

  23. #23
    Yeah.

    Thats why you buy domestic & dont order from retards that don't know how to pack

  24. #24
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    Thank you for posting, it is a very good book

  25. #25
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    I just was seized, got letter today. it was for friggin 120 tabs var. ordered b4 always discreet....This sucks.

  26. #26
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    what are yall talking about you mean you can actually buy steroids that arent prescribed by a doctor wow where have i been

  27. #27
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    thats why u talk to ur local hooks before...going and ordering from china man!
    scarryyyy !

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by kfrost06
    I quess one defense to take would be do not open package right away, wait a few days or longer. I would find it unlikely that the agency doing the surveillance can(will) lie in wait days or longer for you to open it. Just a thought.
    ... and maybe not open it at your house, and once you do open it, keep it somewhere else for awhile.

  29. #29
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    that kind of freaks me out seeing as I just got 2 packages in today and signed and then ripped threw them... wouldn't it be smart though to just take a knife and cut through the package carefully making sure not to set off the device

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam F
    They opened it, and inside were 500 Anabol tablets. “My mistake,” one agent said. “These are okay. You can import a personal use supply. Here, you can take them.” Nice try. as legal
    Dont know why the article didnt touch on this, but the agents saying that was BLATENT entrapment...I hate cops......Ive met more crooked ones then I have respectable thats for sure... They wanna walk all over the constitution like its a piece of toilet paper..

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVTMuscle
    But like I've been told, unless you live in the middle of America (west or east coast you are ALOT safeer), oversea's packages are very rarely controlled, just seized. Domestic packages are the ones that are controlled the most.

    Just curious, not saying you're wrong, but what makes you say this?

    Couple other questions...

    Is registered mail a bad thing? The place I got/will get from sends registered mail according to the FAQ. From wikipedia: "As the letter moves from local office to sub office and then to a main sorting office, it has to be signed for on a ledger. This process is completed when the letter is delivered and the receiver signs for the item." I never signed for my item....hm...

    Is it maybe a good idea to list companies they ordered from when a user says they received a seizure letter? Wouldn't the co./co. address likely be flagged now?
    Last edited by PoorMan; 04-23-2007 at 10:21 PM.

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    What if you ask the delivery guy / undercover agent point blank if he is affiliated with law enforcement? If they say no could you get off for entrapment? A real delivery guy would just look at you like you were from mars.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coop77
    What if you ask the delivery guy / undercover agent point blank if he is affiliated with law enforcement? If they say no could you get off for entrapment? A real delivery guy would just look at you like you were from mars.
    Seen one too many movies...Undercover officers are not required to identify themselves as LE when they are undercover...They only need to identify when they are for instance, about to blow your freakin brains out... Other then that they dont have to, if that were the case how do you think they would infiltrate large drug organizations...


    Second, to PoorMan... We do not discuss packaging techniques on this board or in the open period... Please edit your post... You're posting on a steroid board with close to 70k members, its just not a good idea and you even got really specific so if theres a customs agent on here every pack labeled in the way you described is gonna be ripped through by tomorrow..

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coop77
    What if you ask the delivery guy / undercover agent point blank if he is affiliated with law enforcement? If they say no could you get off for entrapment? A real delivery guy would just look at you like you were from mars.

    Ive heard that them straight up saying "No" is not considered entrapment. Someone once told me if you're goin to buy drugs, and u ask the undercover dealer if hes a cop and he says "no", that it doesnt matter, you're still fcked if you buy off him.

    I offer no proof that this has any credibility though. Just throwin it out there as something random ive picked up.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather

    Second, to PoorMan... We do not discuss packaging techniques on this board or in the open period... Please edit your post... You're posting on a steroid board with close to 70k members, its just not a good idea and you even got really specific so if theres a customs agent on here every pack labeled in the way you described is gonna be ripped through by tomorrow..
    My apologies, I was not aware. Edited my post.

  36. #36
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    Police do not have to identify themselves. You could ask an undercover cop, "Hey, are you a cop?". He could tell you, "Know, I hate phuckin cops". And it would not be entrapment. I think the definition of "entrapment" needs to be clarified. It really has nothing to do with whether or not a police officer identifies himelf or not. Entrapment is the act of a police officer enticing you into a crime that you would have otherwise not commited. For instance, if an undercover cop you met at the gym walked over to you and gives an unprovoked offer to sell you gear, that would be entrapment. Basicly the law was created to keep police from enticing law abiding citizens into commiting a crime. Nothing at all to do with whether or not a cop tells you he is a cop.

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