DNP best article ever

[NewVader]

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pic...3&blobtype=pdf

this is a review paper and despite its title focuses on cataracts there is a ton of general info based on real research. IT MUST BE READ THOROUGHLY in order to be appreciated, don't just scan it. A couple of things that caught my attention:

the cataracts are developed AFTER the drug is discontinued sometimes even several months

it is rare but DNP can alter bone marrow and there are 3 reported fatalities attributed to that...

even if you are not thinking to do DNP it is an excellent reading

[NewVader]

one thing I want to add is that I am not trying to promote either a negative or positive connotation with this paper...It is just a scientific paper and everybody should read it and elaborate their own conclusions...Personaly I am trying to document myself as much as possible before starting my DNP cycle...

[scribbs12]

i did skim.. through it... lol.. interesting.. never crossed my mind to take dnp.. and still doesnt.... clen+cardio+diet is good enough .. but it seems to be 70+years out of date but regardless-- good post

[scribbs12]

why would you want to do dnp...imo its too much for too much of a risk... diet+cardio should be good enough.. and maybe add clen/eca...
but hey its ur choice

[NewVader]

why would you want to do dnp...imo its too much for too much of a risk... diet+cardio should be good enough.. and maybe add clen/eca...
but hey its ur choice

it is for educational purposes only....I've seen so many questions about DNP use and I think they are all answered in that paper

[Property of Steroid.com]

The really interesting thing about DNP is that almost nobody uses it for contest prep in the top levels, or even the high levels of the NPC...

It's one of those strictly-wannabe kinds of drugs, in my estmation.

There's some good DNP info here from Dr.Evil..the former mod who was arrested for selling someone DNP, which caused the customer's death...no...wait..it's probably not great info on second thought.

But there's some cool stuff from "Heretic" posted around the net....nice DNP info...although he was also arrested (in part) for selling it also...

Hmmm....

[SVTMuscle*]

What is your personal opinion on it anthony?

[Ricocer]

What is your personal opinion on it anthony?

besides personal opinions this is a very good post. The article answers all of the questions about DNP that have been asked and disputed over

[Atomini]

Just downloaded the .pdf and i'm going to read it later. I've read a bit about DNP, and it just seems way too much to mess with. Seems worse than steroids. It's certainly not worth the risk. Cooking yourself alive and cataracts for a few pounds of bloat? Not worth it.

[Conciliator]

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pic...3&blobtype=pdf

this is a review paper and despite its title focuses on cataracts there is a ton of general info based on real research. IT MUST BE READ THOROUGHLY in order to be appreciated, don't just scan it. A couple of things that caught my attention:

the cataracts are developed AFTER the drug is discontinued sometimes even several months

it is rare but DNP can alter bone marrow and there are 3 reported fatalities attributed to that...

even if you are not thinking to do DNP it is an excellent reading

Yeah, this is Horner's extensive paper. He had written a few papers during DNP's use (regarding cataracts), but composed this after DNP had been discontinued. He was an opthamologist. He gives a nice review of the history and is also the source of the commonly quoted incidence rate of cataracts: between 0.1 and 1%. Just to clarify, cataracts don't always develop after use, though often did.

As to the bone marrow problems, agranulocytosis was reported a total of 8 times. This is in relation to the 100,000+ people who took the drug. If you read the case reports of these people, it's clear that they had serious medical problems, with a slew of side effects. This can be regarded as an extremely rare and idiosyncratic side effect.

[Conciliator]

why would you want to do dnp...imo its too much for too much of a risk... diet+cardio should be good enough.. and maybe add clen/eca...
but hey its ur choice

The risk is proportional to the dosage. At a low dosage of 300mg/day, metabolic rate is increased, on average, an impressive 30%. Side effects at this dose are few to none. DNP also provides the benefit of fat loss without appreciable muscle loss. By lowering insulin levels and mobilizing FFA's, DNP likely works as a repartitioning agent (much like clen).

When you're on a non-retarded dosage, the only real risk is catracts, which were reported in the 1930's only 3 times in men. With proper anti-oxidant and hepatic function, they shouldn't be a problem. Supplemental antioxidants would be expected to help prevent them in those few who are susceptible. It's a risk, but a remote risk in my mind.

[NewVader]

The risk is proportional to the dosage. At a low dosage of 300mg/day, metabolic rate is increased, on average, an impressive 30%. Side effects at this dose are few to none. DNP also provides the benefit of fat loss without appreciable muscle loss. By lowering insulin levels and mobilizing FFA's, DNP likely works as a repartitioning agent (much like clen).

When you're on a non-retarded dosage, the only real risk is catracts, which were reported in the 1930's only 3 times in men. With proper anti-oxidant and hepatic function, they shouldn't be a problem. Supplemental antioxidants would be expected to help prevent them in those few who are susceptible. It's a risk, but a remote risk in my mind.

I agree with you, It shouldn't be done at more than 300mg/day
do you have a list of those "supplemental antioxidants?"

[perfectbeast2001]

Yes I would also like to see a list of supplements that help with DNP related sides..

[Conciliator]

I agree with you, It shouldn't be done at more than 300mg/day
do you have a list of those "supplemental antioxidants?"

I wouldn't give absolute numbers due to the great degree of variation in personal sensitivity, but that range (200-400mg/day of actual DNP) seems about right for most people.

Yes I would also like to see a list of supplements that help with DNP related sides.

First, I want make clear that DNP has been shown to REDUCE the formation of mitochondrial free radicals. People often have the false idea that with high rates of fat oxidation, mitochondrial oxidative stress is heightened. However, as an uncoupler, DNP decreases the mitochondrial membrane potential, which in turn reduces the "crowding" of electrons and the genesis of free radicals. The research on this is clear.

So why do we take antioxidants with DNP? Because a rare second order metabolite of DNP (a semiquinone) can cause cataracts. Most people (99%-99.9%) are able to neutralize this pro-oxidant without any problems. The other few probably have some deficiency or genetic mutation that makes them susceptible. Antioxidants can be thought of as insurance against this for those unlucky few who are susceptible. They're hardly mandatory though. Thousands of people have taken DNP without antioxidants and have done just fine. My typical recommendation is simple: a normal daily dose of the commons - vit C, vit E, and if you have them ALA and coQ10. DO NOT SUPERDOSE.

But there's lot a more that might confer some protection... A substance called selenite is used in animal studies to cause oxidative stress and initiate cataract formation. If one asssumes that DNP promotes cataracts through a similar oxidative mechanism, studies assessing preventative measures can be helpful. Many of these are common in DNP users' guides (though for the wrong reasons), but others are new (taurine, green tea, lycopene, etc)

Substances found to prevent selenite-induced cataract formation include:
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Glutathione (think NAC)
Taurine, which has been shown to be decreased in the lens
Alpha-ketoglutarate
Lycopene
Green tea
Propolis, Diclofenac, Vitamin C, and Quercetin
Pantethine (pantothenic acid/B5 is converted to pantethine, but both can be purchased)
Pyruvate
Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and Pyruvate

I found it interesting that both quercetin and pyruvate were on the list. These are recommended for use while on DNP, but for completely different reasons, namely as an anti-histimine (to prevent rash) and to promote fat loss. Looks like they may help to prevent cataracts as well.

[Property of Steroid.com]

What is your personal opinion on it anthony?

It's for wanna-be's. Nobody uses it in the top levels for important contests. Nobody that I know of has won a show at any level using it for prep, at any level.

Total poseur drug. Geeks who don't want to diet, and rely on a drug.

[SVTMuscle*]

Yeah when I read your book you didnt seem to think that highly of it

[Conciliator]

Yeah when I read your book you didnt seem to think that highly of it

AR has done very little research on it from what I've seen. His short guide on DNP here on this site is pretty bad. The references are very poor, as is usually the case with him.

[Conciliator]

It's for wanna-be's. Nobody uses it in the top levels for important contests. Nobody that I know of has won a show at any level using it for prep, at any level.

Total poseur drug. Geeks who don't want to diet, and rely on a drug.

If it's not popular among the pros, then it's probably because they've pigeonholed it as an extreme and dangerous dieting drug. Maybe they've bought in to all the rhetoric about it being a pesticide and herbicide and they actually think "it's destroying them from the inside out", or some other nonsense like that. It's also harder to obtain, as only a few sources carry it.

Most people have absolutely no comprehension of how effective DNP is at increasing metabolic rate even at low dosages that have minimal sides. If people understood this better, I'm sure they'd be taking DNP along with their clen a lot more often.

[SVTMuscle*]

Conciliator is the DNP master!
Have many times have you ran it?

[Conciliator]

Conciliator is the DNP master!
Have many times have you ran it?

I've used it during my cutting cycles for the last two years with differeent modes of dosing. A lot of my experience in not personal, though, but comes from feedback from other users and especially from the original research.

[liftin4life]

I agree with Conciliator in regard to AR's opinion on it. Many people fear it because they have not taken the time to do adequate research. I have run it before and was quite pleased with the results. 400mg/day for 14 days. I dropped 14 lbs in this time and had no muscle loss. My bench actually went up!

The myths about strength loss may be because people are overtraining while on it. You can't expect to do set after set if your ATP is being depleted at such a rapid rate. Do 1 or 2 warmup sets, then do one all out set for that particular exercise. You will NOT lose strength if all other factors (sleep, water, diet, supplementation) are in check. ESPECIALLY WATER! A 3% loss in hydration can equate to a 15% decrease in physical performance! Even if you're drinking enough water on DNP (by your opinion), you may not be keeping enough in your muscle tissue. You can solve this by supplementing with...

GLYCEROL! It makes a huge difference as far as comfort goes as well. It did for me anyway. I think that's another supplement that could be added to the list, but not in relation to cataract formation.