tren acetate cycle with low test

[Montgomery]

I know most guys on here advocate that your dosage of testosterone in a cycle should equal to the dosage of all other compounds in that cycle put together. But what if a guy wanted to run just tren acetate at 50mg ED and then run test prop at a really low dose like 25 mg ED, just to maintain libido. Might throw some var in there too.

Montgomery

[jagdpanther]

I'm on a similar cycle right now 150mg test/week and >100 mg tren E ED. I'm also using masteron50-100mg ED. i really like this cycle. my libido is good and the low test seems to decrease the amplitude of the tren sides.

I'd highly recomend giving it a try

[Montgomery]

cool, thanks for the input. Just out of curiosity, how long are you going to run it? How long have you been running it and what have your gains been? Strength wise/weight wise?

Montgomery

[BG]

I'm on a similar cycle right now 150mg test/week and >100 mg tren E ED. I'm also using masteron50-100mg ED. i really like this cycle. my libido is good and the low test seems to decrease the amplitude of the tren sides.

I'd highly recomend giving it a try

Why tren-e ed?


As far as the question asked, your going to do ed injects, why not get the most out of prop, its such a great compound when ran ed, your most likely shutting yourself down regardless, why not run 300-400 of prop and get some good results.

[jagdpanther]

I'm very gyno sensative even while on letro. That is why I'm keeping the test and all aromatizing compounds low while on tren. i'm shooting the tren E ED because i think it keeps the blood levels more stable and I shoot ED for the masteron anyway - so I'm piggy backing it. If the tren acetae i have was more potent then i would use that instead of the tren E. I made the tren a while ago before i even thought of running this protocol and made it at low concentration 50mg/ml - at the very least that would mean 2ml tren A ED plus 1 ml masteron. my tren e is higher concentration so its just a half ml ED plus 1 ml masteron. I don't like shooting more then 2 ml in my delts and lats - that is half of my injection sites.

Besides ithink that the stable bllod levels of tren are contributing to keeping the sides low.

[Montgomery]

I'm very gyno sensative even while on letro. That is why I'm keeping the test and all aromatizing compounds low while on tren. i'm shooting the tren E ED because i think it keeps the blood levels more stable and I shoot ED for the masteron anyway - so I'm piggy backing it. If the tren acetae i have was more potent then i would use that instead of the tren E. I made the tren a while ago before i even thought of running this protocol and made it at low concentration 50mg/ml - at the very least that would mean 2ml tren A ED plus 1 ml masteron. my tren e is higher concentration so its just a half ml ED plus 1 ml masteron. I don't like shooting more then 2 ml in my delts and lats - that is half of my injection sites.

Besides ithink that the stable bllod levels of tren are contributing to keeping the sides low.

That's cool panther but what about your gains so far? How long have you been on so far and what have you seen? How long are you going to be on for?

Montgomery

[pigrond]

tren e only needs to be done twice a wk if you were working with a short ester like the acetate i would do everyday or eod but it doesnt make any sense to shoot an enanthate ester everyday it defeats the purpose of using a long ester,and your looking at few weeks before you will see the gains/effects kick in,just my opinion

[jagdpanther]

to make a long story as short as possible i had surgery about 1 year ago. i dropped from a lean 227 to a leaner 195 over about 6 months because i couldn't do alot of real lifting till about 8 months post. (i did keep going to the gym to do what I could).
In nov/Dec I started lifting a little heavier again acording to my doctors advice and started trying to bulk up a bit.

I'm six foot tall, and started the cycle at 205 with around 13% body fat(maybe lower cause I could see like 4 out of 6).
I'm ending week six right now and am hovering around 213-216. my body fat has dropped which is obvious from increased defenition in my abs/core, shoulders, back ,legs - just about everywhere.
In all honesty eating enough was a problem at the begining of my cycle. I originally planed on this being a lean gainer and calculated that i needed around 3800 calories ED. I found that in the begining i was having trouble getting much above 3000. i started to really push my eating and by weeks 4 and 5 i was having some 5000k days. If i can keep the intake up and remain lean i will try and run this as more of a bulker since I'm doing so well on intake at this point.
i originally planned on running this as an eight week cycle switching back to my weaker tren a after week six. The sides seem so mild that i have decided to try running it longer. If the sides stay low I'll try for twelve weeks. There are some other possible changes i'm contemplating before the end of the cycle but as it's still a little up in the air as of now, so I'm not going to get into it. Sorry but I'm really starting to hate this question because so may people have asked me and I've typed it a billion times. I should be a little smater and just start pasting a link.

[jagdpanther]

tren e only needs to be done twice a wk if you were working with a short ester like the acetate i would do everyday or eod but it doesnt make any sense to shoot an enanthate ester everyday it defeats the purpose of using a long ester,and your looking at few weeks before you will see the gains/effects kick in,just my opinion

I agree with alot of what your saying. In the past i've used tren e 2 times a week. I'm just experimenting a little. Either way I don't think it will make or break my cycle. I'm shooting the masteron ED anyway so its not a big deal either way. what is an extra .5 ml per shot?

[pigrond]

it wont break your cycle just that any sides or growth are gonna take longer to notice and the total amount of tren still in your system at the end of the week is much higher than if you were using the short ester which would absorb and reduce on a daily basis instead of every 2 wks.if your on wk 6 now you should really start to see sides/gains now.

[jagdpanther]

Thanks for the refresher on ester lengths- lol. I know what the half lives of different esters are and how they effect hormone concentration in the blood over weeks.In addition to studying graphs on test concentrations from a single shot of Test E over a 25 day period, using cycle calculators of dubious quality, coming up with my own numbers on a spread sheet to compare when maximum hormone levels are reached with different esters, reading a study on the effects how the injections site effects the rate of absorption, i've also read a paper on how the concentration of the injectable steriod effects its rate of absorption. I don't claim to know everything but i'm not quite a newbie either.

This is the third time running tren. I know the tren is good because it was all made from the same bag of powder by me. i've been having sides for quite a few weeks now, its just that they are much milder I believe in part from the low test levels and inpart from trying to keep my hormone levels very stable. I think that the 8-11 pounds I've gained in light of the fact that at the same time i've probably lost at least 5 pounds of fat, means the lean tissue gain is probably 13 to 16 pounds (although I think its closer to 13) is pretty good in 6 weeks (low bloat). After edit Let 's say even with the low bloat i have 3 pounds of additional water weight so my actual lean mass increase is only 10 pounds. In 6 weeks that still seems really freakn good to me - especially while dropping fat If your are looking for the scale to jump up like on dbol, this is not that type of cycle. end edit

I could probably gain a little more I'm sure if I ran higher test but i think the sides are also synergistically cumilative when running test and tren. I think the low test is having a large impact on keeping the sides tolerable.

[dece870717]

Why is everyone so scared of test?

[jagdpanther]

I like test a lot, I just don't like a lot of test and a lot of tren at the same time.

[Montgomery]

Ditto, I've done big test cycles before but wanted to know if there was a pharmacological advantage to steering clear of high test with a progestin-like compound like tren.

Montgomery

[fLgAtOr]

Why is everyone so scared of test?

No one is scared of it.

But for those of us that are prone to growing tits...or other estrogenic sides, lowering it some has helped immensely.

[BigMC]

100mg of Tren E ED seems like your just killing your ass with shots. 2 week half life...why not just take 1 shot a week with the desired dose? 100mg ED would mean you are building an enourmous amount of Tren E in your blood. Sides would be worse then if u just took the recommeded 200mg-400mg weekly injection.

[Decoder]

tren e only needs to be done twice a wk if you were working with a short ester like the acetate i would do everyday or eod but it doesnt make any sense to shoot an enanthate ester everyday it defeats the purpose of using a long ester,and your looking at few weeks before you will see the gains/effects kick in,just my opinion

Exactly

[fLgAtOr]

100mg of Tren E ED seems like your just killing your ass with shots. 2 week half life...why not just take 1 shot a week with the desired dose? 100mg ED would mean you are building an enourmous amount of Tren E in your blood. Sides would be worse then if u just took the recommeded 200mg-400mg weekly injection.

Huh?

[Bigmax]

100mg of Tren E ED seems like your just killing your ass with shots. 2 week half life...why not just take 1 shot a week with the desired dose? 100mg ED would mean you are building an enourmous amount of Tren E in your blood. Sides would be worse then if u just took the recommeded 200mg-400mg weekly injection.

Agreed...

[jagdpanther]

100mg of Tren E ED seems like your just killing your ass with shots. 2 week half life...why not just take 1 shot a week with the desired dose? 100mg ED would mean you are building an enourmous amount of Tren E in your blood. Sides would be worse then if u just took the recommeded 200mg-400mg weekly injection.

Well I'm finishing week six and I feel good. I guess my body doesn't mind enormous amounts of tren.

Although shooting an enanthenate once a week may be great for hrt doses on test, it wouldn't do very well as far 700mgs of tren once a week and trying to keep your hormone levels stable.
Below is a graph I pulled off another web page of a single shot of test e, I think I remember that a single dose at between 125-150mg was administered, but my memory is a little sketchy as far as the dose is concerned.
But the point is valid regardless in the dose range we are talking about(not multiple grams a week).
You can see that by day seven hormone levels have droped from a high of 48-49 down to about 20. That is roughly a 60% drop in your hormone levels.

Definately not keeping steady hormone levels, which as i've said several times in the post I'm trying to do. Twice a week though would probably be workable though - three times a week for sure - but that is not what wanted to do - I've done that before. Granted the drop in the graph may not be as sharp in decline when doing 700mg because the rate of ester removal might be limited by the amount of enzyme available to remove the ester from the tren - but this is just speculation at this point. For all I know there may be a feed back loop that signals cells to make more of the ester removing enzyme which would increase the slope of the decline.

I've already gone through the differnt reasons i ended up shooting tren E instead of the tren A i have - so I'm not getting into that again.

By the way my sides would be worse if i took 500-700mg test with 200-400mg tren. i know because I 've run that type of cycle before - twice.

The cycle i'm talking about is one I'm on right now - I'm in week six - I should have built up maximum blood levels from that dose somewhere in week four.
My sides are not worse then on previous cycles in fact they are much milder, and i believe it is because of the combination of low test and high tren. Will this work the same for you? I don't know but it is working really well for me. now.

Oh i have eight injection sites and it really doesn't bother me to shoot myself ED, I take more then 7 days off between shooting the same spot. I know exactly where I'm at on my cycle because it is laid out on a spread sheet that includes the injection site rotaton and other information like actual doses taken every day. I fill it out as i go and make notes when i feel there is something that needs to be recorded, as in sides.

[jagdpanther]

100mg of Tren E ED seems like your just killing your ass with shots. 2 week half life...why not just take 1 shot a week with the desired dose? 100mg ED would mean you are building an enourmous amount of Tren E in your blood. Sides would be worse then if u just took the recommeded 200mg-400mg weekly injection.

You should revist your data on ester halflives. If this is from your notes I would suggest checking the source of your information and then validating that against other sources as I can assure the half life of enanthenate is shorter then two weeks.

[aadrenaline]

Well I'm finishing week six and I feel good. I guess my body doesn't mind enormous amounts of tren.

Although shooting an enanthenate once a week may be great for hrt doses on test, it wouldn't do very well as far 700mgs of tren once a week and trying to keep your hormone levels stable.
Below is a graph I pulled off another web page of a single shot of test e, I think I remember that a single dose at between 125-150mg was administered, but my memory is a little sketchy as far as the dose is concerned.
But the point is valid regardless in the dose range we are talking about(not multiple grams a week).
You can see that by day seven hormone levels have droped from a high of 48-49 down to about 20. That is roughly a 60% drop in your hormone levels.

Definately not keeping steady hormone levels, which as i've said several times in the post I'm trying to do. Twice a week though would probably be workable though - three times a week for sure - but that is not what wanted to do - I've done that before. Granted the drop in the graph may not be as sharp in decline when doing 700mg because the rate of ester removal might be limited by the amount of enzyme available to remove the ester from the tren - but this is just speculation at this point. For all I know there may be a feed back loop that signals cells to make more of the ester removing enzyme which would increase the slope of the decline.

I've already gone through the differnt reasons i ended up shooting tren E instead of the tren A i have - so I'm not getting into that again.

By the way my sides would be worse if i took 500-700mg test with 200-400mg tren. i know because I 've run that type of cycle before - twice.

The cycle i'm talking about is one I'm on right now - I'm in week six - I should have built up maximum blood levels from that dose somewhere in week four.
My sides are not worse then on previous cycles in fact they are much milder, and i believe it is because of the combination of low test and high tren. Will this work the same for you? I don't know but it is working really well for me. now.

Oh i have eight injection sites and it really doesn't bother me to shoot myself ED, I take more then 7 days off between shooting the same spot. I know exactly where I'm at on my cycle because it is laid out on a spread sheet that includes the injection site rotaton and other information like actual doses taken every day. I fill it out as i go and make notes when i feel there is something that needs to be recorded, as in sides.

this is why i shoot every 3rd day, and the graph provides more than enough info to say thats the best way to shoot an enanthate ester.

[ironpumpindoc]

I will say that one of the best that I ever had was a custom mix of 75/100mg tren/test p ED. Amazing results/sex drive, but the common side effects for both were definitely there

[jagdpanther]

this is why i shoot every 3rd day, and the graph provides more than enough info to say thats the best way to shoot an enanthate ester.

The graph is enlightening as far as it goes but this does not factor in hormone level variation due to cumalative shots. I agree that shooting three times a week or E3d works under most circumstances. It is much better then once or twice a week. Just for kicks if your they type to do a little work on your own take the numbers from the graph and plug them into a spread sheet where each colum represeants the concentation of hormone every 24 hours.
Every row will represent an injection. Plug in the numbers for 25 days. Move the starting concectration two columns to the right between each injection for E3D. Provide data for 28-30 days of injections. Use the Sumation function for each colum , this will give you your daily hormone concentration factoring in the residual hormone from previous shots.

Now do the same thing except only skip one column to the right between each shot this represants EOD shots.

Finally just move one colum to the right for each subsequent injection this will represent ED shots.

You will see that the most stabile hormone levels are acheived by ED shots(yes with enanthenate). How significant is this stability in actual use as opposed to on paper? That is what I'm trying to determine with my experiment. I won't have a definitive answer as this is the first time I'm running a low test/high tren protocol. Next time I will run the same cycle shooting EOD or E3D - then I will be able to compare.

Unfortuanellty my spread sheet does not make adjustments for the change in the rate of absorption due to injection site location, nor does it factor in the effect of the injectables conecntration which also have an impact.