finally got everything in and wanted some input

[SilverToungedDevil]

stats 6'2" 195LBS, 9.5% BF 25YRS OLD. diet is on point, and i've been an avid lifter for my whole life. I'm trying to put on a clean 20 pounds with minimal sides and quick recovery. thanks in advance for input boys.

Week Deca
1-10 300mg
Test Cyp
1-10 400mg

Sstart PCT 15 days after last injections
Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

[GHO5T]

The combonation of the AAS compounds used for the cycle and PCT are good, no problem there.

I would however increase the deca dosage to 400mg/wk, you can keep the test dosage the same or increase to 500mg/wk.

Also the durations could use a little tweaking. As you know 19-nor compounds will suppress the user more than any other family of AAS.

With that said, IMO you should run your Test 2 weeks longer than your 19-nor compound (deca), then wait 2 weeks and start PCT, this will ensure that the Deca is out of your system completely before starting PCT.

This will optimize your PCT, and should make for a more quicker recovery, than if you had the 19-nor in your system and ran the PCT.

~GHO5T~

[SilverToungedDevil]

great point.. i just re-read what you said and i need to change the question? waiting an extra two weeks after the extra two weeks of just test... will that be a problem for sides like gyno because of the deca ***leting for 4 weeks instead of 20days?

[GHO5T]

great point... do you think that starting the pct directly after the last shot of test would be an issue though... since the start time for pct after test cyp is about 15-19 days because of the long ester??

Yes, to a certain degree.

Test will suppress your natural test levels to a certain degree, granted not as much as a 19-nor compound.

Test C or E will still be in your system even after discontinuation of the compound, i believe roughly 2 weeks or so. This is why its recommended that PCT start time is roughly 14 days after the last administration of Test E or C.

Starting PCT immediately after the last shot is IMO counter-productive, since the main goal of PCT is to bring your natural test levels up as quickly as possible.

But if you still have a compound (test) active in your system that is suppressing you to a certain degree, than your PCT isnt going to do much, since your natural T levels are being suppressed from one point, and your trying to raise them from another, this will come out as a stalemate.

Waiting 2 weeks for the Test to clear, and running a PCT will optimize results as there are no compounds in your system to suppress your natual T levels.

~GHO5T~

[Wizeguy]

I found running HCG @ 500iu 5/2 during the last week of your cycle and for 2 weeks thereafter had me bounce back nicely.
(Anthony Roberts protocol for HCG)

[perfectbeast2001]

very well thought out cycle IMO.

[SilverToungedDevil]

thanks ghost... you raise a great point. i think i'll extend the cyp for atleast a week and a half maybe two after my last deca shot. cheers

hey wizeguy... have you tried the hcg both ways?? just wandering if you noticed a difference in the rebound from doing it the way you suggested or just starting the hcg two weeks after your last inject.

[SilverToungedDevil]

thanks beast

[GHO5T]

great point.. i just re-read what you said and i need to change the question? waiting an extra two weeks after the extra two weeks of just test... will that be a problem for sides like gyno because of the deca ***leting for 4 weeks instead of 20days?

If your worried about estrogen related issues such as gyno, you can opt to run an AI (Letro or Arimidex) for the entirety of the cycle leading up to PCT start time. This is the best option to keep estrogen related side effects to a minimum.

~GHO5T~

[taiboxa]

Test will suppress your natural test levels to a certain degree, granted not as much as a 19-nor compound.
~GHO5T~

both cause complete suppression.

[Wizeguy]

I found running HCG @ 500iu 5/2 during the last week of your cycle and for 2 weeks thereafter had me bounce back nicely.
(Anthony Roberts protocol for HCG)

Yes , I tried it the way its listed in Anabolics 2006 (W. Llewyellen). I used doulble the amount of HCG and recovered slower. Too Much HCG is no good either. I think is was too much for me. So, I tried Roberts aproach and recovery was very smooth. My testes dropped and plumped up nicely after about 1 week.

[SilverToungedDevil]

wizeguy....so 5days on 2 days off the last week of the cycle, then start pct with the hcg after the normal 2 week period or did you continue to take the hcg straight after your last injection?

[BigLittleTim]

Classic Combo of drugs, followed by a text-book perfect PCT:

The "Little Black Dress" of steroid cycles.

(MIGHT want to add a few weeks of front-loading with an oral... but that's just me.)

-BigLittleTim

[SilverToungedDevil]

thought about dbol.... but i think i'm just gonna front load my cyp the first week.... don't like the water retention from dbol. my diet is high cal but really clean so i maintain a pretty lean physique throughout, but i'm prone to retain water. maybe halo?? not really sure though. thanks for the input. cheers

[Wizeguy]

wizeguy....so 5days on 2 days off the last week of the cycle, then start pct with the hcg after the normal 2 week period or did you continue to take the hcg straight after your last injection?

HCG last week of cycle, then proceed with the next 2 weeks. Therefore your HCG is done before you start PCT. I always start my PCT a bit earlier though.
Note: This HCG protocol is outlined in Roberts book under the "HCG" heading.

[SilverToungedDevil]

thanks bud... i should read through that again just to brush up on his studies... the guy is the man.