EVERYONE juices....

[Drummerboy]

Just though id toss it out there that EVERYONE juices... theres so many hormones in much of our basic foods... it shows on the younger generations... so, most everyone 'round here is on hormones... just smaller doses over a long time. Is it deliberate? Just a side effect of free market competition? You decide....


~DB~

[scaramouche]

give me an example please,what hormones r in what foods

[Mista Massive]

i think another aspect is that through choosing the correct foods you can manipulate your own hormones.

protein is merely a building block for testosterone, therefore increasing your intake of protein, increases your testosterone levels.

sadly, a lot off ppl who use gear are unaware of this and choose to gear because they think it's the only way they'll ever grow

[NotSmall]

i think another aspect is that through choosing the correct foods you can manipulate your own hormones.

protein is merely a building block for testosterone, therefore increasing your intake of protein, increases your testosterone levels.

sadly, a lot off ppl who use gear are unaware of this and choose to gear because they think it's the only way they'll ever grow

[Mista Massive]

you don't agree?

[NotSmall]

you don't agree?

It is my understanding that testosterone is derived from cholesterol.

[TheSentinal]

Just like eveyone does drugs because we all use medicine. It is a stretch! lol

[scaramouche]

you don't agree?

i dont agree,if that were the case then nobody would need to juice,testosterone will increase the bodys ability to assimilate protein into muscle primarily by causing nitrogen retention in the muscles,protein gets round the body by attatching itself to nitrogen molecules thus aiding muscle growth,but protein doesnt stimulate testosterone production as i understand things,i could be wrong of course i havnt got round to my biochemist degree yet ive been a bit busy in the gym

[MBaraso]

everyones on edge....

[Mista Massive]

i dont agree,if that were the case then nobody would need to juice,testosterone will increase the bodys ability to assimilate protein into muscle primarily by causing nitrogen retention in the muscles,protein gets round the body by attatching itself to nitrogen molecules thus aiding muscle growth,but protein doesnt stimulate testosterone production as i understand things,i could be wrong of course i havnt got round to my biochemist degree yet ive been a bit busy in the gym

i didn't mean it increases it directly

[Atomini]

Testosterone is not synthesized by or from protein.... that's why it's called a STEROID hormone, and not a POLYPEPTIDE hormone.

Testosterone is fat soluble and is therefore synthesized with cholesterol.

[SMAN12b]

I like to eat Cake

[scaramouche]

is it high protein cake?

[ss01]

i think another aspect is that through choosing the correct foods you can manipulate your own hormones.

protein is merely a building block for testosterone, therefore increasing your intake of protein, increases your testosterone levels.

sadly, a lot off ppl who use gear are unaware of this and choose to gear because they think it's the only way they'll ever grow

ROFLMGDMFAO....

[Serotonin]

you don't agree?

Test is derived from cholesterol as all sex hormones are. It is hydrophobic and relatively non-polar which is why it is suspended in oils.

Aminos (protein) are pretty much all polar and soluble in water, a few are basic and a few are acidic, and the rest are nonpolar with polar side chains.

[NewVader]

i think another aspect is that through choosing the correct foods you can manipulate your own hormones.

protein is merely a building block for testosterone, therefore increasing your intake of protein, increases your testosterone levels.

sadly, a lot off ppl who use gear are unaware of this and choose to gear because they think it's the only way they'll ever grow

this is absoluteley wrong..testosterone production has nothing to do with the amount of protein you eat...or anything ealse you eat for that matter

[Property of Steroid.com]

this is absoluteley wrong..testosterone production has nothing to do with the amount of protein you eat...or anything ealse you eat for that matter

Are you sure about that?

[NewVader]

Are you sure about that?

well, I am sure about the fact the amount of protein ingested doens't affect testosterone production.No?
I know if you don't eat enough saturated fats you can hinder your testosterone production, as it is derived from cholesterol.
But provided you have an appropriate intake of all the nutrients, I am not aware of any particular nutrient that eaten in high amounts will significantly boost your test production.
What are your views on this?

[Stock]

this is absoluteley wrong..testosterone production has nothing to do with the amount of protein you eat...or anything ealse you eat for that matter

There are plenty of items out there, ie test boosters, that do work. So, I would say that you are incorrect in this statement. For example, some AI's are able to boost test by decreasing estrogen production, if I'm not mistaken...

[Giants11]

Just because there are hormones in our food doesn't mean we are ingesting them. Hence the reasons most hormones that are effective orally need to be methylated. Unless some one is putting methylated Test in my meat, the amount of meat you would need to eat to have a hormone actually have an effect on you, I would think would be massive.

Just that like Quack Mercola claims that IGF-1 in milk is dangerous. Apparently he has never tried to drink IGF-1, it would be a massive waste of money

[Giants11]

There are plenty of items out there, ie test boosters, that do work. So, I would say that you are incorrect in this statement. For example, some AI's are able to boost test by decreasing estrogen production, if I'm not mistaken...

Test has a direct correlation to ones Cholesterol/Fat intake. So my guess would be that yes protein would have a significant impact, seeing as most protein has fat in it, even if it's just a little fat.

[Swifto]

I believe red meat increases testosterone levels, aswell as a host of other foods.

[kynetguy]

this is absoluteley wrong..testosterone production has nothing to do with the amount of protein you eat...or anything ealse you eat for that matter

Incorrect sir. Very very very VERY incorrect.

[kynetguy]

I believe red meat increases testosterone levels, aswell as a host of other foods.

Yes, Lean Beef is EXCELLENT at increasing testosterone.

Things that help your Test production:

Zinc
Vitamin A - Essential for normal function of reprocuctive organs.

Salmon and oysters - rich in Vitamin A and zinc (and protien). As well fish oils are good to keep SHBG lower. Less SHBG does not increase test, but rather with less SHBG, less test will bind to it therefor you will have more free test available.

Fried foods, sugar and caffeine over stimulate adrenals which produce some test. Over stimulation of adrenals leads them to not produce any or even less test.


We could go on.

[kynetguy]

Test has a direct correlation to ones Cholesterol/Fat intake. So my guess would be that yes protein would have a significant impact, seeing as most protein has fat in it, even if it's just a little fat.

So if I start a high fat/cholesterol diet, I can throw these vials of Prop away????

[Giants11]

So if I start a high fat/cholesterol diet, I can throw these vials of Prop away????

Hmmmmm:

Manipulating Dietary Cholesterol for Optimum Muscle Growth by Dharkam

by Dharkam

Disclaimer: Discussion of pharmaceutical agents below is presented for information only. Nothing here is meant to take the place of advice from a licensed health care practitioner. Consult a physician before taking any medication.

Vince Gironda, the Iron Guru, used to recommend eating up to three dozen eggs a day in order to pack on mass fast. His rational was that the high cholesterol content would trigger a natural anabolic effect.

Ronnie Coleman, in his last video, Relentless, is taking a cholesterol lowering drug. Yet, such drugs are said to be detrimental to muscles.

Both behaviors seem contradictory!

* Is high or low cholesterol better for muscle growth?
* Why would anyone use a muscle wasting drug?

New research reconciles this paradox revealing that proper cholesterol manipulations can optimize muscle growth.

Acute training impact on cholesterol level

If moderate weight training does not seem to affect cholesterol levels, a traumatic workout will most definitely induce an acute reduction of blood cholesterol level within 2 hours (1). This shortage of cholesterol can last up to several days during the recovery phase. This lowering effect is due to an accelerated uptake of cholesterol by skeletal muscle. It reveals our fibers need this extra cholesterol in order to recover and grow.

Considering the positive impact of cholesterol on muscle growth (see below), it might be a good idea to include cholesterol-rich foods such as whole eggs in you first real post-workout meal. This strategy would make sure your muscles obtain all the cholesterol they need, preventing any potential shortage which would postpone recovery.

Dietary cholesterol intake on muscle growth

Riechman has studied the impact of cholesterol on (resistance) training-induced hypertrophy (2). This research has been conducted on elderly men and women, yet its findings seem relevant to younger subjects:

For 12 week, those people weight trained. When their daily cholesterol intake was inferior to 3.5 mg per kg of lean mass, no hypertrophy was detected. Strength only increased 36%. When their cholesterol consumption was above 5.7 mg/kg, muscle mass increased an average of 2.1 kg. Heavy cholesterol consumers experienced a strength increase of 86%.

Muscle growth and strength gains are closely related to dietary cholesterol intake. Considering a large egg contains around 200 mg of cholesterol, a 220 lbs bodybuilder would need at least 3 whole eggs a day.

Blood cholesterol level on muscle growth

Subjects with serum cholesterol lower than 178 mg/dl did not experienced much growth (+300 g of lean mass). When serum cholesterol was above 238 mg/dl, lean mass increased an average of 2.3 kg. The correlation between serum cholesterol and strength gains is statistically weaker. Subjects with low cholesterol level experienced an increase of 37% Vs 70% for subjects with high levels.

Muscle growth is positively correlated with blood cholesterol level.

Cholesterol lowering drugs on muscle growth

Statins are a class of drugs prescribed to lower the level of cholesterol in the blood. This class of drugs includes lovastatin (Mevacor), simvastatin, (Zocor), fluvastatin (Lescol), pravastatin (Pravachol), rosuvastatin (Crestor) and atorvastatin (Lipitor). The mechanism by which statins lower cholesterol is by blocking the enzyme in the liver, hydroxy-methylglutaryl-coenzyme A (HMCoA) reductase, responsible for producing cholesterol. Statin drugs lower total serum cholesterol levels, including HDL, as well as LDL levels.

Cholesterol intake and blood level represent two in***endent variables affecting hypertrophy. Subjects who responded the best to weight training were those consuming a cholesterol rich diet AND having a high blood cholesterol level AND using anti-cholesterol statin drugs. It is very surprising to discover that such drugs improved muscle gains as they are associated with myalgia, muscle weakness and muscle wasting in sedentary subjects.

Statin drugs accelerate muscle hypertrophy. The more we train, the more resistant our fibers get. It is increasingly difficult to damage them sufficiently to force them to grow. By rendering our fibers more fragile, statin drugs allow each rep to be more damaging to our muscles. As our muscles cannot seem to strengthen its fibers enough to counteract this fragilizing effect, they have no choice but to keep on growing.

Will cholesterol-related muscle catabolism favor growth?

I am not surprised that catabolic drugs facilitate muscle gains in trained subjects. I have already explained this paradox in a previously published clenbuterol article. Even cholesterol seems to enhance catabolism. Following an acute eccentric workout, soreness as well as strength loss are higher in young men consuming a whole egg diet rather than a low cholesterol diet (1). In response to this exacerbated catabolism, muscle strengthening is much more robust with the whole egg than with the white egg diet (1). This greater anabolic response explains the results observed on elderly. It also suggests that conclusions reached in older subjects apply to young men as well.

It may be important to note that if training-induced catabolism is enhanced by cholesterol lowering drugs, they also protect muscle cells from apoptosis (death) (3). This protective effect may facilitate an additional growth response.

Anabolic steroids and cholesterol

Anabolic steroids can either increase or decrease cholesterol levels ***ending on the choice of the drug as well as the individual response of the user. For example, orally active 17-alkylated anabolic-androgenic steroid are known to cause and undesirable reduction in HDL cholesterol levels. A severe reduction (which can go as low as having almost no cholesterol) is really bad for 2 reasons:

* Cholesterol is needed for muscle growth (as well as for general health). It is very hard to bring cholesterol production back up to normal even with discontinuation of the steroids.
* An increase in serum cholesterol levels would be a much better scenario as more cholesterol would be available for growth. It would also provide a good reason to get a prescription for the anti-cholesterol drug class of statins.

In conclusion:

* With regards to muscle hypertrophy, It is a good idea to follow a high cholesterol diet (at least 3 whole eggs a day).
* This is especially true if your training is both intense and traumatic.
* Be careful during a low calorie diet as cholesterol intake usually is reduced during this period.
* Cholesterol level tends to decline in summer, so be careful at that time, too.
* Whole eggs are very appropriate and recommended following a workout.
* Steroid users should closely monitor their blood cholesterol level as a decrease may reduce muscle growth.
* Steroid users with high cholesterol levels should consult a physician and may consider the use of statin drugs in order to grow even more rapidly.

References

1. Riechman SE. Dietary Cholesterol Alters Recovery from Eccentric Muscle Damage in Humans. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise: Volume 38(5) Supplement May 2006 p S386
2. Riechman SE. Dietary and blood cholesterol and statins increase hypertrophy with resistance training. FASEB J. 2005 19 A1571
3. Urso ML. Changes in ubiquitin proteasome pathway gene expression in skeletal muscle with exercise and statins. Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol. 2005 Dec;25(12):2441-4.

[kynetguy]

Nice find Giants! Interesting article.

[NewVader]

Incorrect sir. Very very very VERY incorrect.

really?
can you back it up with something?
as I posted in response to anthony roberts I said that not ingesting enough saturated fats (which are found in meat) can hinder your test production.
The study that Giant pulled out preatty much states the same.
Now, here we are talking about foods (nutriens) that raise your testosterone, and the threadstarter stated that your protein intake is related to your testosterone production. Please show evidence that by eating a lot of whey protein, lean meat or lean fish one's testosterone levels are raised.
I don''t think you can come up with anything, and that is was my point.
still incorrect?

[nbkandrew13]

i think the kids now mature earlier and are bigger because of all the steroids and all the other crap they give cattle and ckns and fish and so on and no i dont have anything scientific to back it up so eat me

[Serotonin]

Man, people were getting married and bumping uglies when they were 14/15 a few hundred years ago... People aren't maturing any differently on the physical level.

[yahya1966]

just an observation, but isn't it amazing that some of the most muscular animals, e.g., gorillas, rhinos, bulls, horses, etc. are all vegetarians. they get all of their protein from plant sources. downside is they pretty much have to eat all day to get enough fuel for their big bodies. gorillas are jacked with huge guts like some pro bodybuilders.

[Atomini]

i think the kids now mature earlier and are bigger because of all the steroids and all the other crap they give cattle and ckns and fish and so on and no i dont have anything scientific to back it up so eat me

Ok, i'm tired of hearing this everywhere. The reason kids mature earlier and are bigger is because of better nutrition today and more plentiful amounts of food available than in the past. If you take a look at the trenches from world war one, and stand in them, you would clearly be able to tower over them. Back then, the average height was much smaller. Food was not as plentiful back then as it is today.

Yes, they are shooting up the cattle with hormones, but if those hormones were really being fully absorbed by all who eat them, then the situation would really be ALOT worse. Could you imagine a 7 year old eating steak, chicken, etc. and absorbing all of the testosterone that the farmers shoot up the beef with?

[10nispro]

I agree kids are bigger, but are they healthier? Unfortuanately the choices the kids make, along with the parents are not always the smartest. i.e. (fast food and the proportions). We have a much more sedintary lifestyle children, with video games and such.

Is there any research showing a group of ppl that eat non-hormonal meats and veggies vs hormonal?

[kynetguy]

really?
can you back it up with something?
as I posted in response to anthony roberts I said that not ingesting enough saturated fats (which are found in meat) can hinder your test production.
The study that Giant pulled out preatty much states the same.
Now, here we are talking about foods (nutriens) that raise your testosterone, and the threadstarter stated that your protein intake is related to your testosterone production. Please show evidence that by eating a lot of whey protein, lean meat or lean fish one's testosterone levels are raised.
I don''t think you can come up with anything, and that is was my point.
still incorrect?

I already did in a subsequent post. But since you won't google on your own, let me go do a search and I will be back with sources you can read.

[kynetguy]

http://www.safemenopausesolutions.co...al-desire.html

http://www.babycenter.com/expert/pre...n/1349542.html

http://www.testosterone-booster-guid...tosterone.html

[nbkandrew13]

ok im not saying every hormone injected into a cow makes it but tell me a 12-14 year old girl or boy looks like they did when the majority of the milk went from cow to the table , if it looks like a duck and quacks its a duck

[NewVader]

http://www.safemenopausesolutions.co...al-desire.html

http://www.babycenter.com/expert/pre...n/1349542.html

http://www.testosterone-booster-guid...tosterone.html

dude, the first 2 links do not mention protein as a testosterone booster.
They mention zinc and vitamins
The third does mention eggs for cholesterol, beaf for the fat and yes there is comment on protein in chicken but it does not sound scientifically convincing. I don't know if you are into any sort of scientific discipline ( I am) but if you are, you should know that when you use references they have to be reputable studies, not 2 lines on an unknown website where they tell you that if you eat chicken you will boost your testosterone! When I said back it up I meant pub med or another reliable source. However I invite you to check your testosterone levels while on say 100g of protein/day and then without changing anything else repeat on 300g/day...I do not think you will see any difference, let alone something meaningful to muscle gain..

[Mista Massive]

ok im not saying every hormone injected into a cow makes it but tell me a 12-14 year old girl or boy looks like they did when the majority of the milk went from cow to the table , if it looks like a duck and quacks its a duck

i have to to say something here.

take a look at a 15 or 16 yr old girl of today. they are fully developed with huge tits and feminine bodies.

yes, they do wear more revealing clothes and have attitudes to match, but back 20, or even only 10 yrs ago, girls did NOT look like that at that age!!!

i suppose the same goes for males. the average height is taller and the build is a lot more muscular. whether it's from the steroid pumped meat, or the fact that today science has provided the parents with better understanding of nutrition, the kids ARE bigger and more developed earlier on.

[inheritmylife]

Pre-agrarian peoples were larger than the modern human. It is pure fiction that pre-historic, but modern humans were smaller or weaker in any way.

[scaramouche]

this is actually getting quite interesting,its not about being right or wrong just having a good discussion its a light hearted thread anyway,to get back to the threadstarters original point,i think we can say any hormones present in foods r purely incidental and will not contribute to muscle growth,for example eating beef from a farm where the livestock r all on fina wont be like doing a tren cycle,any residual chemicals will be destoyed by the liver as a toxin and who would add hormones to cereal products anyway,i think we can also say our protein intake has no efect on natty test porduction but interestingly enough colesterol does,which is something i diodnt know,and mister massive,r u trying to get us all arrested lol we cant go round looking at 15-16 y/o's feminine bodies and huge tits,i think that side of things is largely down to advances in nutritional/fitness awareness in years gone by ppl were a lot thinner because good quality food was expensive now days it accesible to everyone although there r still too many fatties