Boosting Test

**kynetguy** · 06-28-2007, 12:52 PM

This probably needs to be in the HRT section, but since everyone does not read that, I wanted to discuss this idea here in hopes to find someone with the knowledge or experience I seek.

I was laying in bed thinking about HRT. My test is on the lower end of the scale and I would like to boost it. But some of the limits of my phisology knowledge has me curious.

We all agree that taking test can shut your natural test down. That's a given. But does anyone know of studies or have expirience with LOW doses of test to increase your bloodlevels, but not shut down your own production?

How much is too much? At what levels of exogenous testosterone skew your axis to the point of shut down?

Can you take say 100mg a week, increase your test, but keep your natural production going?

The difference between a test of 1000 and a test of 500 is huge. You feel better. Your mind is sharper. Your ability to deal with stress is better. And of course, your ability to maintain mass is increased.

I don't neccisarily want to do a full HRT where I am ***endant on it for life. I would like my boys and adrenal glands to continue to produce testosterone. I would just like to raise my levels a couple hundred.

Does this make since?

I am not looking for a cycle, an HRT program. But an increase of test when I am NOT running a cycle. I don't think that the introduction of exogeneous testosterone shuts down natural production. I just think that the levels that are taken for HRT or a cycle do.

**kynetguy** · 06-28-2007, 12:56 PM

Giants11's thread about HPTA Shutdown got me thinking about this. . .but I didnt want to threadjack.

**kynetguy** · 06-28-2007, 05:54 PM

no one has a thought or opinion? I swear. . .how disapointing. I come home expecting 20 replies to a topic like this. LOL

**JMC** · 06-29-2007, 10:03 AM

im interested too...bump

**Nitz5785** · 06-29-2007, 11:03 AM

I would go to Vitamin shop and buy a bottle of the Yohimbe 1500 and try that first to see how you feel. I feel a nice test boost when I take it even pct wise. I think the web url is vitaminshop.com if you don't have a store by you. Either way make sure it is 1500+ milligrams of pure yohimbe bark.

**Amorphic** · 06-29-2007, 01:14 PM

I believe you can introduce low dosages of test to boost your levels to a "natural" peak without shutting down your natty production. I'm not sure about dosing or to what extent this can be done though. I'd be interested to see some imput from members on HRT or TRT in regards to this as their knowlege would be far greater.

**Kratos** · 06-29-2007, 01:18 PM

your body will not produce at more than 100% of what you have now. For example if your body is making 7mg a day and you introduce 3mg it will make 4 mg a day.

**kynetguy** · 06-29-2007, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

your body will not produce at more than 100% of what you have now. For example if your body is making 7mg a day and you introduce 3mg it will make 4 mg a day.

Well, I kind of agree with this. In young males, I totally agree in most cases. But what about us mid-30's guys whose test is on the decline?

What normally causes test to drop? (not considering testicular damage or outside factors) Do we just not make as much because we physically can't? Or does the hypothalmus say "OK, all you get now is 7mg a day" and tells the HTPA to shut off poduction when that number is reached?

Basically is it a loop problem or is it a physiological issue of production? WOuld the loop not shut us down if we introduced test "supplementaion" as long as we didn't go over our natural ability?

If my test used to be at 950, but now its at 450, when why did that happen? Are my testes just not able to keep that level of production or does my hypothalmus say "dude, you are old, you don't need test at the 950 level?

That is the question I don't have a clue about and havent been able to find any studies.

Maybe I can shoot 50mg of Test E a week and not slow down what I make naturally at all?

How would one measure endogeneous versus exogeneous production? I guess if I shot 50 mg a week and my levels were 1100, one could ASSUME that natual production was taking place because we can be pretty certain that 50 a week would NOT give you a level that high.

I had a vasectomy two years ago and I really think my test levels have since dropped. Unfortunately I have no tests to prove or disprove that. SO I am not worried about sperm production, only testosterone .

**Kratos** · 06-29-2007, 07:36 PM

If your test was 950 and now is 450 it is because the brain wants it to be so, your testicles could make more if they were told to. I have thought a vacectomy may lower test levels but have not read anything to back it up. Blowing a nice load of sperm usually is follow by a spike in FSH/LH to replenish them. I don't know if shooting blanks has this same effect or not since they never leave the ball bag.

**kynetguy** · 06-29-2007, 08:06 PM

So you think unless I exceed what my brain thinks I should have, that my levels will not increase? (of course they will spike initially, but long term)

**LmbrJak** · 06-29-2007, 08:11 PM

Theres SARMS but unfortunately they wont be available for some time.

Ive read that hrt doses from 100 to 300mg per week with an AI did not completely shut down test production.

Ill see if I can find the studies

**kynetguy** · 06-29-2007, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by LmbrJak

Theres SARMS but unfortunately they wont be available for some time.

Ive read that hrt doses from 100 to 300mg per week with an AI did not completely shut down test production.

Ill see if I can find the studies

That would be cool. I would like to see some scientific studies, I am having trouble finding them.

**Atomini** · 06-29-2007, 08:27 PM

Bump. I'm interested in this too.

**LmbrJak** · 07-02-2007, 08:39 PM

This is what I read on another board

It should be noted that studies have demonstrated that at dosages between 150-250mgs, endogenous testosterone production was sustained to a small degree when an AI such as arimidex was used.

I contacted the original poster and he has not posted the studies yet

But I did find an abstract that was interesting

High-density lipoprotein cholesterol is not decreased if an aromatizable androgen is administered.Friedl KE, Hannan CJ, Jones RE, Plymate SR.
Department of Clinical Investigation, Madigan Army Medical Center, Tacoma, WA.

We examined the influence of aromatization of testosterone on serum high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C) and postheparin plasma hepatic triglyceride lipase activity (HTLA) in men. Eighteen healthy lean nonsmokers (ages, 20 to 33) were administered androgens in a weekly total dose of 280 mg for 12 weeks in one of three groups: testosterone enanthate (TE) (280 mg/wk intramuscularly [IM]); TE (280 mg/wk IM) + testolactone (TL) (250 mg orally [PO] four times daily); or methyltestosterone (MeT) (20 mg PO twice daily). Serum testosterone achieved steady state levels by 4 weeks with greater than 40 nmol/L (TE and TE + TL) and less than 15 nmol/L (MeT) while 17b-estradiol (E2) rose to greater than 250 pmol/L (TE) or remained below 70 pmol/L (TE + TL and MeT). LH fell to less than 5 U/L (TE and TE + TL) but remained unchanged with MeT. By 4 weeks, HDL-C had decreased significantly from 1.20 +/- 0.13 to 0.77 +/- 0.13 mmol/L (MeT), from 1.18 +/- 0.15 to 0.89 +/- 0.13 mmol/L (TE TL), and demonstrated no decrease in the TE group across the time course of the study. These changes were preceded by mean increases in HTLA of 102% (MeT) and 55% (TE + TL) over baseline, and no significant change with TE. The changes in HDL-C and HTLA returned to baseline within 2 weeks of steroid cessation. There were no changes in total cholesterol, triglycerides, or insulin in any group but, in the MeT group, apo AI levels decreased and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) increased.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 2294373 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

interesting that methyltestosterone didnt shut anyone down

Ill post more as they come in

**kynetguy** · 07-03-2007, 06:18 PM

That is interesting. Keep it coming!

**LmbrJak** · 07-03-2007, 08:40 PM

Heres another one

http:http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/.../22/6/1053.pdf

go down to page 3 and 4 to see the graphs. this study didnt use an ai

**kynetguy** · 07-04-2007, 06:09 AM

Now there is some useful info. Knowing the effects on LH at given weekly doses would allow you to come to a conclusing wether or not you are producing nat test.

Looks like at 100mg/week, you LH production becomes nil. This would lead me to conclude that your nat. test production would also be nil. (at least running only test E, no AI, no HCG etc.

**TuxAndrews** · 07-05-2007, 07:48 PM

HCG would be a great med to take to ensure your body is at full peak of its ability to produce.

Alot of dr's are prescribing low amounts of test a week a long w/ hcg...taking together is safe and no negative side effects now or for future.

**Kratos** · 07-05-2007, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by TuxAndrews

HCG would be a great med to take to ensure your body is at full peak of its ability to produce.

Alot of dr's are prescribing low amounts of test a week a long w/ hcg...taking together is safe and no negative side effects now or for future.

Don't do this unless you really need HRT. Your test levels are fine, when you are a little older and not as worried about the cumulative effect go all in for the HRT when your test levels really are low.

**kynetguy** · 07-06-2007, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

Don't do this unless you really need HRT. Your test levels are fine, when you are a little older and not as worried about the cumulative effect go all in for the HRT when your test levels really are low.

I am knockin on 40 and my normal test is 230ish.

**Kratos** · 07-06-2007, 10:36 PM

In your first post you were talking about the diffrence between 1000 and 500 being huge, and in another post you were like "if my test levels were 950 and now they are 450," I just assumed that's where you were at. 230ish is kinda low, but knockin on 40 is kinda young. Including HCG in HRT doesn't nessicarily make HRT a 2 way street though. An AI is almost always nessicary as they monitor and regulate your estrogen levels with a HRT program Why not try an AI alone first over several monthes, to see if that helps your test levels, this is a very common doctor prescribed alternative. If an AI boosts your test, no dependence, just what you're looking for.

**kynetguy** · 07-06-2007, 11:03 PM

I am sorry. I was just using example numbers.

My last test reading was 234 and that was about 2 - 3 weeks ago.

The AI is a good tip. I had read some information posted in this thread and researched further. It seems that any amount of exogenous test will cause a decrease in production. It seems as though your testes and your hypothalmus will allow X amount of test to be in your system and tries to regulate from there.

I don't neccesarily want to run test forever.

So puting MY numbers in there, I was wanting to get in the high 700s to mid 800s but not shut down natural production. I guess it would have been easier to say that from the get go as to not confuse the issue.