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http://file021b.bebo.com/10/large/20...589832065l.jpg
http://file016b.bebo.com/10/large/20...755062564l.jpg
http://file018b.bebo.com/14/large/20...896199990l.jpg
random pic i found somwhere of someone because this is like what i have got but no lumps or soreness anywhere so a little confused
estrogen fat in the breast... Not quite gyno though. It cones more then that. I know a lot of guys are going to say its nothing, but I have studied my boob for years it seems and I can see exactly where the estrogen fat is in the first pic. I will try to outline it of somthing.
Every single male has estrogen fat at some point of their life. It is part of puberty with all the test you have in your system. You CAN get rid of estrogen fat but not straight up gyno unless you fork over some cash for surgery.
whats the way of getting rid of estrogen fat then? hardcore training, letro?
letro will KO the fat big time. For something not as severe try nolvadex.
Hey,
You look alot like our ole banned boy Foskamink.
Survey says?
yeh just looks like estro fat, wouldnt worry about it too much at the moment, but if you are just follow the advice above ;)
redrocket... are you on cycle right now?
I have a similar situation, just started Letro at .50 to .75 ED. We will see what happens. Mine is affected more when I intake several high carb meals.
like i say its not me in the pictures but i have simliar to it and was just wondering what everyone thought it was because was preety sure its not gyno
yeah just startedQuote:
Originally Posted by Sir Lifts-a-lot
redrocket,
Yes, I think u are prone to gyno, u must deal with it now, the sooner the better!
hope thats not you, if it is you have no business doing a cycle.
its NOT me. My pictures on my display 1st pic after then 2nd one before
what are your stats?
what dosage of letro though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Lifts-a-lot
so if i was gonna rone either letro or novladex to get rid of it what dose of novladex would it been compated to the letro 10mg a day?
10 mg letro a day?!?
I hope thats a typo because you should not use letro at those levels EVER.Quote:
Originally Posted by redrocket86
what about arimidex?
i meant nova at 10mg a day
like i say i dont think its gyno but im just wanting too lose that fat from the area a bit so what dose of letro? 0.25mg ed? how fast acting is it usually
That could just be where you are genetically predisposed to store fat. If it is because of high estrogen, arimidex or something similar would be a good idea. Letro is pretty hardcore. That is more for if you really have gyno. There is a big difference between gynocomastia and pseudo-gynocomastia, which is just chest fat. So I would recommend 250 mcg (.25 mg) of arimidex/anastrozole per day. A little nolva or clomid wouldn't hurt, they raise natural test production which helps with chest fat, and fat storage in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnygll
i believe i have this pseudo-gyno as well but mine is more severe than the pics above.
i did a-dex as part of my pct last cycle and nothing happened. so maybe a-dex isn't good enough.
if you think it is, then what dosages and for how long?
as part of my PCT i ran 0.25mg a-dex ED for 30 days along with nolva and clomid.
I have seen charts where people get higher test and lower estrogen up to 1 mg per day. More then that does little. You just have to be careful with changing your hormone levels as going too low will give you sexual problems.
Now it could be .25 mg is enough. Before you were counteracting the effects of steroids, where as now it would be acting on your natural hormone levels.
The other component of this is cutting. Different hormone levels can change what area your body wants a higher ratio of fat in, but it won't get rid of the fat. So you do a cutting a diet and maybe ad some HIIT. You would take the a-dex the whole time you do the cut.
If your bodyfat is kind of high, it can just be as simple dieting. It is only a hormone thing if there's more fat on your chest then on your belly.
I'd try letro
I disagree. I really think he shouldn't take letro unless he has reason to believe his estrogen levels are very high. Like getting the levels tested or noticing some actual breast tissue. Otherwise your levels can go too low and you will lose your sexual function. It will probably be a few very unpleasant days for you. Your test will be high, so you may get horny, but there won't be much you can do about it. Tadalafil will get you an erection, but If you were able to cum it would take much effort. Some yohimbe might help... and maybe some prescription meds I can't mention on here....
You can always test the waters so to speak. Up your dosage of a-dex little by little. Then if you are taking 1mg a day with no problems at all. Then you could maybe try a low does of letro. But it's not going to cause any permanent problems, if you have to learn everything the hard way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnygll
your explination doesn't really make much sense.
i THINK the main thing here is that you have pseudo-gyno, you need to cut to minimize it. it's fat. so getting your bf% down is the only way to rid yourslef of it. i don't see how lowering estrogen levels can do anything.
im no where near an expert with this stuff, and i also have something goin on with my nips, (it looks strikingly similar to the first picture) not sure if its gyno or just some fat so i have been thinkin about this quite a bit
but lookin at these pictures i dont understand how this kid could have stubborn fat around his nipple area, i mean hes got abs, hes gotta be under 10% bf, if he cut nemore hed be working towards competition shape
I would say that if it is not lumpy or hard, it is not gyno. I have gyno in one nipple and I am currently on Epistane (partly as an attempt to get rid of it) and it has worked quite well.
so if im hearing this right if i just take some nolva it could decrease estrogen fat? Im not on a cycle and havent been yet....what would it do for me then?
Ok, I can see I didn't explain this properly.
It is fat that is in the chest. You can cut and get your fat levels lower, once they get to a certain point it will be gone.
If you have abnormally high estrogen levels or low testosterone levels, cutting will be harder then normal.
Abnormally high estrogen levels can cause a man to store more fat in the chest area. Genetics can be to blame as well.
If you have high estrogen causing you to store more of your body fat in the chest, lowering that to a more normal level will change the ratio of how much fat is wanted on each part of the body.
The result is, as you lose weight more of it will come from your chest, because you body doesn't think half the fat should be there. So as you lose fat, you lose the tits faster. So now your tits will be gone when you reach 12% instead of 10% or whatever.
This is only the case if you have high estrogen levels though.
I hope that's more clear. But if not, just get to single digit body fat, then it won't matter where your hormones and genetics say most of your fat should be, because you won't have enough for it to matter.
As an example of hormones being a factor of where more fat goes, look at the differences in where men and women typically store fat.
Another example is with insulin. Very high insulin levels cause more fat to be stored around the middle, which is why that is a warning sign for metabolic disorder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnygll
i can see what you are trying to say, BUT...... i cycled late last year and got up to around 13% body fat. by far the highest i had ever been in my life. i have since gone down to about 10 or 11%. but the chest situation is still there and i think has even gotten worse. I know i have quite naturally high test levels. unless that is a factor i don't see if what you are saying applies in all situations.
i'll post pics if you want.
Yea, that might be a good idea. 10 to 11% you can have a slight bit, but there shouldn't be much. Did you get that way recently, during puberty, or has it been like that since childhood?
I have the same thing, but it has been that way since I was a kid. So I know mine is strictly genetic. I used to be real fat at one point so I had some pretty big ones. Now I'm in the 10 to 11% range. So they aren't too bad now. Because of the loose skin, it's not going to look good until I get down to 9% where it will tighten up.
Now if the chest has gotten worse that might be gyno. It normally won't get worse when you lose weight. Only when you gain weight. I'll take a look and see if I can tell. Usually with gyno it is concentrated under the nipple rather then spread out.
And yes, what I am saying does not apply in all situations. As I mentioned before it is only for chronic high estrogen levels. Not for obesity, not for genetics, and not for a large one time surge that caused gyno.
so if use novladex on it how long im i expecting to see reslults as i've heard letro sucked all the estrogen fat out of my mates pecs almost instantly
Nolva isn't going to work too well. arimidex is a good one to try. Aromasin is stronger and may be a good choice too. It's true letro will work fast, but it may cause problems.
The timing is going to vary for everyone. If you really want to have accurate information for your particular case, you would have to go to a doctor and get your hormone levels checked. Then you will get the right drug at the right dose and a time line of when to expect it to happen. That way you don't have to play with dosages and different drugs to get it done without side effects. I can tell you that doctors usually only give letro to men with true gyno though.
The DIY way is just starting with a mild AI at a low dose and upping it if it's not having much effect. You're kind of flying blind so you have to go slow.
well i've got 200 10mg novladex tablets at the minute. Havent managed to get hold of any letro or arimidex yet. So what dosage should i use the novladex at 20mg a day? or is it not going to make any difference
The nolva will not do anything, nolva is an estrogen and will compete with other estrogen for the receptor sites and prevent gyno but I have never heard of it reversing gyno. Also, I am skeptical of wether you actually have gyno based on those pics. I know it's not you but it doesn't look like gyno and thats what you said yours looks like. Go to the doctor and ask his advice on wether it's gyno. GL