Gonna try again.... need some help

**lokkingforgains** · 07-08-2007, 09:32 AM

I did apartial cycle about a year ago then I blew out my shoulder. Test (inj) once a week, D-Bol (50 a day) did about 4 wks started to feel strong and saw some good gains. My question is I have put on a few pounds (lol) since my last cycle, and am ready to start back at it. I am thinking of doing a cutting cycle first, Winny and clen for about 4 weeks, time to lose the fat and make a few small gains, then in the fall do a full blown bulking cycle. I am about 225 but still hold a little size, heavy around the middle. Any advice on my thoughts please let me know. I appreciate any advice.

Thanks

**lokkingforgains** · 07-08-2007, 01:15 PM

Come on somebody help me out..... I am ready to do this.

**FranKieC** · 07-08-2007, 01:31 PM

What is your body fat?

My advice would be get your diet in check and lose the BF. IMHO i think Clen is very overrated. I also see a lot of people on here thinking Winnie will Shred you, that's not the case. Your best bet moving forward is to lay out a cutting diet for 8-12 weeks and get you BF and weight down. Then I would lay out a Clean Bulk before you even consider anything else. Take one step at a time, I know I used to get so amped and excited that I would lose focus on the most important factors such as diet and training. You can take all the Gear on Earth and without propper diet, training and rest you will not grow.

**Musicman** · 07-08-2007, 01:43 PM

obviously get your diet in check. wait a month, then you can decide if you wanna use clen to speed up the process. no need for winny, if anything hit up some clen/t3

**lokkingforgains** · 07-08-2007, 02:16 PM

I think I will get back at it and do a month of lifting and cardio get my diet right. Thanks for all the advice. I am jacked to get back on the dark side.

**FranKieC** · 07-08-2007, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by lokkingforgains

I think I will get back at it and do a month of lifting and cardio get my diet right. Thanks for all the advice. I am jacked to get back on the dark side.

Good choice!

**Sir Lifts-a-lot** · 07-08-2007, 04:28 PM

winny does not shred you. It hardens you up, makes you vascular. It is not intended for weight loss. It is best as a 'finisher' (used to solidify your gains from a large cycle).

**Manpretty** · 07-08-2007, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by lokkingforgains

I think I will get back at it and do a month of lifting and cardio get my diet right. Thanks for all the advice. I am jacked to get back on the dark side.

IMHO youve got alot of work to do before cycling your BF is quite high as far as im concerned

**Manpretty** · 07-08-2007, 04:31 PM

lose a good 30-35 lbs and then think of cycling.....im just guessing looking at that pict ....get your bf tested to be more accurate

**lokkingforgains** · 07-08-2007, 06:49 PM

Man pretty wow that was a little on the harsh side. I appreciate the advise but wow. Not saying I could not lose a little weight, but I guess you were just born big and ready to go? Some day If I work at it I will be able to come on here and flame on people..... Thanks though

**Manpretty** · 07-09-2007, 07:18 AM

look buddy im just being honest.....you clearly are going to cycle anyway....so have fun cycling improperly IMO

but if you dont have the dedication to diet down then you sure as F ****kkk arent going to do well on cycle, its takes alot of work and you sound a little lazy to me and want a quick easy way to get huge and ripped.......i can tell you that wont happen.....

anyway like i said have fun cycling improperly

**Huckster** · 07-09-2007, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Manpretty

lose a good 30-35 lbs and then think of cycling.....im just guessing looking at that pict ....get your bf tested to be more accurate

30-35 lbs??

**Kratos** · 07-09-2007, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Huckster

30-35 lbs??

I would say 10-15, the guy is not that much of a lard ass. He looks to be at least late 30's as well so he will loose a lot of muscle if he tries to really diet down.

**Manpretty** · 07-09-2007, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Kratos

I would say 10-15, the guy is not that much of a lard ass. He looks to be at least late 30's as well so he will loose a lot of muscle if he tries to really diet down.

why? so the older you get the more muscle you lose???
explain please

**Kratos** · 07-09-2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Manpretty

why? so the older you get the more muscle you lose???
explain please

Tougher for old heads to acheive lower body fat.

**Titleist** · 07-09-2007, 11:54 AM

He doesn't need to lose 35lbs before he can cycle. He needs to lower his bf% yes, but he doesn't need to lose a ton of weight.

The point in being at a lower bf% before using AAS is to cut down on estrogenic side effects. Also, as you already know diet is very important to have in check before starting. By having a lower bodyfat percent, it shows that you know how to diet efficiently.

You don't look bad man, but get your diet solid and drop your bodyfat% down some before starting.

Good luck.

**Manpretty** · 07-09-2007, 11:55 AM

and yeah at 225 X .25 bf (thats 25% bf for you guys that didnt clue in) = is 56 lbs of overall fat

and you should be some where around 10-12% bf before cycling thus 225 X .13bf = 29lbs of fat to lose.......

not hard guys and thats only to get to 12% bf

if he wanted to get to 10 it would be 33.75lbs

the guy has a high enough bf to be holding fat in his lats and nips.....you cant see much else except for the baggy shirt and large waist......

im just being straight with him......not looking to spare his feelings as the rest of you are

**Manpretty** · 07-09-2007, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Kratos

Tougher for old heads to acheive lower body fat.

explain your claims please!!!

if you cant please dont fill peoples heads with garbage

**Kratos** · 07-09-2007, 12:12 PM

The human body changes in many noticeable ways with age. Often, the first signs of aging involve the musculoskeletal system. By age 35, peak performance, even among superior athletes, begins to decline. Testosterone levels go down, gh levels go down, lots of reasons. I don't think the dude needs to get to 12% before using steroids . People use steroids for many reasons in their lives, not just to be man pretty eye candy, and if he gets to his goal before he's dead isn't that what it's all about?

**Kratos** · 07-09-2007, 12:36 PM

to threadstarter, clen and winny are not the answer and you need to get your diet spot on and make some attempts to get the bf% down, like do a lot of cardio for the next few monthes. I don't wan't you to take what I said as a thumbs up.

**Manpretty** · 07-09-2007, 12:42 PM

look buddy there are TONs of older guys on here that will tell you cutting and maintaining muslce is totally diet dependant......if you are lazy and not on point about your diet yes you will lose muscle but that goes for anyone........

yes there are physiological changes in the body at that age however it does not make it harder to maintain muscle...sorry

and hes going to be on his second cycle albeit he's old but thats no excuse to run your cycle imporperly.....esp since he has no exp with aas.......

to get this straight you are defending a guy that
A) wants to cut on winny and clen because hes too lazy to do the work himself ...ps winny like someone said up there wont do shsisiitt for you if your fat
and B) that has shown NO dedication to training (obvious by the pict), that is if he is actively trying to get cut.........drugs are an aid NOT the thing that builds your physique

**Manpretty** · 07-09-2007, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

to threadstarter, clen and winny are not the answer and you need to get your diet spot on and make some attempts to get the bf% down, like do a lot of cardio for the next few monthes. I don't wan't you to take what I said as a thumbs up.

THANK YOU THAT IS GREAT ADVICE

sorry for cutting in to you so hard i just hate people that use AAS as the main component for changing there body

**Kratos** · 07-09-2007, 01:41 PM

no question the guy has some work to do. After he does get his body fat down a bit/looses 15 pounds the natural way, he should stay on that diet and workout routine and do a cutting cycle (diet being the important part). Doing a bulker at 20+% and being undiciplined is going to just turn him into a bowling ball. 225 is more than all he needs to weigh, just at a lower bodyfat.

**Adam F** · 07-09-2007, 02:33 PM

Lookingforgains should not even be looking at a vial of steroids . His pic says enough. Looks like a newbie that has been working out for about a year. Or has been working out on and off throught his life. Every one in this thread is so worried about Bf% when you should be looking at this dude's frame. You cannot build a house that is sitting on a weak foundation.

Sorry Looking, no flames here at all. I think you look good and are on the right track. Im sure people will disagree with me here, but I have a feeling if they do they are the same people cutting corners.

**bpm1** · 07-09-2007, 03:32 PM

i did my first cycle at a lower bf than u and it sucked, because i was too fat! please get ur diet in check, DIET IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING ELSE!!!!!i have learned this the for myself.i too was malinformed and uneducated about aas until i got on this board.after i learned about the importance of the diet i got a diet worked out and have been faithful to it ever since.i started out with a 38-40" waist and now its down below 34" and im 33 yrs old and i retained my muscle as my diet was SPOT ON! i lost a total of 36lbs of flab and got down to about +/- 11% bf id say.anyway the point is to get to diet forum and get that worked out now! this is the base of all cycles. there is no shortcut for this, all the guys u see in mags and on this board that u wish u look like have one thing in common and that is a solid and clean diet, that is all there is to it.

**bpm1** · 07-09-2007, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

Tougher for old heads to acheive lower body fat.

kratos, i have to say ive read alot of ur threads and u r very knowledgable in alot of things but i think ur off on this and alot of "older in age"bros would agree with me. im 33 and i cut down quite successfuly and quickly while maintaining my lbm. ur right in the fact that metabolism slows the older u get, and maybee this is all u were saying, but it can be manipulated with the proper diet so in thats sense it more about getting the diet right and not necesarily "harder" IMO. anyway im just saying age shouldnt be an excuse to be soft around the middle. and i feel 15%bf is the absolute highest bf u should have before cycling, IMO

**Kratos** · 07-09-2007, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by bpm1

kratos, i have to say ive read alot of ur threads and u r very knowledgable in alot of things but i think ur off on this and alot of "older in age"bros would agree with me. im 33 and i cut down quite successfuly and quickly while maintaining my lbm. ur right in the fact that metabolism slows the older u get, and maybee this is all u were saying, but it can be manipulated with the proper diet so in thats sense it more about getting the diet right and not necesarily "harder" IMO. anyway im just saying age shouldnt be an excuse to be soft around the middle. and i feel 15%bf is the absolute highest bf u should have before cycling, IMO

Wish I didn't post anything in this thread to tell you the truth, and not psyched about this guy doing roids. If you diet this guy to where he needs to be there isn't much there, and he isn't going to listen to "go lose 35 pounds" anyway. I think I felt bad for the guy for a minute, but the best thing would be if he would spend another year in the gym.