Anyone out there battling Gyno and winning--I think I am getting it and need help.

**Braski** · 08-22-2002, 08:09 AM

I am winding down on a 12 week cycle of EQ(400mg/wk), Cyp(500mg/wk) and Winstrol Depot 50mg/ED. Tuesday was my last shot of Cypionate and the EQ only last 10 weeks. I still have a weekand a half worth of Depot however just this past week my nipple are is really tender and puffy as hell. Got Clomid for next week but I started taking 20mg Nolvadex tabs last week in the event that my estrogen was out of balance. I think this made it worse!!! and I feel a small lump in my left pec, not sure if this is the gland or new growth. Also, noticed that I am holding more water, fat in my chest but the remainder of my mid section and shoulders are getting tighter....needless to say I am crapping in my drawers......Help

What should I/could I take in addition to or in place of Nolva to reduce the puffiness or growth. Is Arimidex , or LIquidex my best option???? Should I discontinue the remainder of the winny?

I plan on a three month layoff from any gear but would like to know what I can do to prevent this from happening again.

I have educated myself as to what can be taken but wanted to hear first hand if anyone out there had the same problem and what they did to correct. PLEASE ADVISE....I would hate to think all those hours and cans of tuna are for nothing because I am going to develop RAT TITS.

THANKS IN ADVANCE

Braski

**adaptations** · 08-22-2002, 08:10 AM

The winyn is not giving you gyno....its the test,,,,Bump the nolv up to 40-60 mg ED untill it goes away...then continue at 20 mg ED...

**OGPackin** · 08-22-2002, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by adaptations
The winyn is not giving you gyno....its the test,,,,Bump the nolv up to 40-60 mg ED untill it goes away...then continue at 20 mg ED...

Exactly...good advice!

OG

**adaptations** · 08-22-2002, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by OGPackin

Exactly...good advice!

OG

Hey i try!

**eclypz** · 08-22-2002, 08:41 AM

Well this would be a good thread to ask my two questions. I understnad that nolvadex is an anti-estrogen, and that liquidex is an anti-aromatase, they both work in different ways to solve similar problems but from different perspectives.

So here's the deal. I have always had breat tissue. From puberty its been an issue. So If I were to do a cycle I would probably want to stick with liquidex all the way through just to be on the safe side, since nolv is usually administered once signs appear. BUT I have also heard that a certain amount of estrogen is needed for receptor regulation, sex drive, cellular hydration, joint lubrication things of that nature, so perhaps if I took nolvadex all the way through it would still allow some of the effects of estrogen but block my breasts from trouble, or oes nolvadex shut down all estrogen receptors?. Would it waste my cycle if I took liquidex all the way through, seeing as how a little estrogen is good?

One other important question. If I were to do a cycle I would start taking clomid a week after my last shot, correct? then there is sort of a pyramiding down of the dosage, right? So what is everyone's usual clomid dosages? Im trying to add up the costs of the clomid...

thanks in advance...

**Braski** · 08-22-2002, 09:05 AM

Thanks for the advice regarding dosage increase...Will give it a try and see what happens....hopefully it will work.

**adaptations** · 08-22-2002, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by eclypz
Well this would be a good thread to ask my two questions. I understnad that nolvadex is an anti-estrogen, and that liquidex is an anti-aromatase, they both work in different ways to solve similar problems but from different perspectives.

So here's the deal. I have always had breat tissue. From puberty its been an issue. So If I were to do a cycle I would probably want to stick with liquidex all the way through just to be on the safe side, since nolv is usually administered once signs appear. BUT I have also heard that a certain amount of estrogen is needed for receptor regulation, sex drive, cellular hydration, joint lubrication things of that nature, so perhaps if I took nolvadex all the way through it would still allow some of the effects of estrogen but block my breasts from trouble, or oes nolvadex shut down all estrogen receptors?. Would it waste my cycle if I took liquidex all the way through, seeing as how a little estrogen is good?

One other important question. If I were to do a cycle I would start taking clomid a week after my last shot, correct? then there is sort of a pyramiding down of the dosage, right? So what is everyone's usual clomid dosages? Im trying to add up the costs of the clomid...

thanks in advance...

Well first off, you can run L-dex throughout your whole cycle...no harm in that. The Nolv, since you think your prone...have a shit load of it with you so when you do start seeing signs you can jump on it, and controll it.

#2 depending on what drugs you are taking, depends on when you are going to start taking clomid...loook in the EDUCATION tghreads for that info, its in there,,,
No need to taper down on dosages, its an old myth...
And as for clomid dosing..
standard is
300 mg Day 1, 100mg ED for 10 days, and 50mg ED for 10 days...

You need a total of 36 tabs, and shouldnt run you more than 30$ for your clomid...hope that helps...PM me if you need more info

**djdjdjddjon** · 08-22-2002, 09:34 AM

yah that nolva can actually antagonize the situation though, maybe you should look into some arimidex for future cycles? good luck with the problem...sorry to hear about it

**eclypz** · 08-22-2002, 10:28 AM

So there is tapering then.. Im sorry I should have made it more clear that I was NOT speaking of tapering down the as, instead the clomid.

as far as what type of AS depends on what time you start clomid, I once again forgot to mention the details. I was going to run some sustanon and fina. So the clomid usually starts 3 weeks after the last shot of sust since it has long acting esters(sust).

I will go back and peruse the education thread so I dont get smacked around though...hehehehe...

Oh by the way Im curious. If you are taking enough liquidex to shut down your aromatase then nolvadex would be a waste of time, no?

Thanks for your information adaptation...

**adaptations** · 08-22-2002, 10:30 AM

No youd still need nolv.....Nothing beats nolv for your gyno issues..
Your wrong about the Clomid timing.
If your taking sust....The indow of waiting is 3 weeks after your last sust shot, but if your running fina at the end of your cycle...then you run the fina during that 3 week period, and then srart your clomid, i beleive its 3 days after the last fina shot.

***Sicilian30*** · 08-22-2002, 11:36 AM

Personally I take them both. and mix them. But I am the gyno king here. I read an article by a well known person/bb and he suggested taking both, during and post cycle. Estrogen is needed in teh body, yes even in guys, but to much is the key here. When I take to much Armidex/Liquidex, my joints hurt for days, my hands hurt, my shoulders hurt, my chest even hurts. So I balance all this by taking Armidex, once or twice a wek and Nolv in between to space them both out so to speak.
However, to keep the bloating down, Armidex is what is needed, to prevent gyno and to get rid of lumps, Nolv is used (some AS can not reach their full potential without having to convert to estrogen). So can you see the need for both?

**eclypz** · 08-22-2002, 11:45 AM

HEy Sicilian, it make sperfect sense bro... So you take what, 1-2mg of liquidex a week, and then how much nolvadex do you run if you start seeing problems? How much alltogether nolvadex do you have on hand for a cycle?

By the way just tell me to shut up and read the education forum if you must, but Im in process of jumping back and forth from that to this thread, and if I dont have to twist your arm to do it, if you could just tell me that would be awesome...