nolva = bad?

**DHew** · 07-20-2007, 09:30 PM

I was just reading through some old threads and I saw a post saying "with all the recent news out there about nolva being horrible...."

Is there some new findings about nolva being horrible? In what way?

**Maldorf** · 07-20-2007, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by DHew

I was just reading through some old threads and I saw a post saying "with all the recent news out there about nolva being horrible...."

Is there some new findings about nolva being horrible? In what way?

From what I have read it is hard on the liver.

**mickdiesel** · 07-21-2007, 12:04 AM

its bad in a lot of ways I've read. it can cause blindness, breast cancer in men, all kinds of shit

**Njord** · 07-21-2007, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by mickdiesel

its bad in a lot of ways I've read. it can cause blindness, breast cancer in men, all kinds of shit

Please send me some links to those studies. I doubt they even exist. I am sure Nolvadex has its share of side effects in men, but at the dosages and duration that BB's use it, chances of seeing any of those symptoms are rare. This is just internet hysteria, caused by post's like the one above.

**Maldorf** · 07-21-2007, 10:00 AM

Here is what this site had to say, and its from the PDR. Physician's desk reference, this is the gold standard for the practice of medicine.

"Brand name:
Nolvadex
Generic name: Tamoxifen citrate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is Nolvadex prescribed?
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Nolvadex, an anticancer drug, is given to treat breast cancer. It also has proved effective when cancer has spread to other parts of the body. Nolvadex is most effective in stopping the kind of breast cancer that thrives on estrogen.

Nolvadex is also prescribed to reduce the risk of invasive breast cancer following surgery and radiation therapy for ductal carcinoma in situ. The drug can also be used to reduce the odds of breast cancer in women at high risk of developing the disease. It does not completely eliminate your chances, but in a five-year study of over 1,500 high-risk women, it slashed the number of cases by 44 percent.

"Special warnings about Nolvadex
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Nolvadex can also cause liver damage, and should be used with caution if you already have liver problems.

If you experience visual problems while taking Nolvadex, notify your doctor immediately.

In a few women Nolvadex may raise the level of cholesterol and other fats in the blood. Your doctor may periodically do blood tests to check your cholesterol and triglyceride levels.

Nolvadex may produce an abnormally high level of calcium in the blood. Symptoms include muscle pain and weakness, loss of appetite, and, if severe, kidney failure. If you experience any of these symptoms, notify your doctor as soon as possible.

If tests show that your blood contains too few white blood cells or platelets while you are taking Nolvadex, your doctor should monitor you with special care. These problems have sometimes been found in women taking Nolvadex; whether the drug caused the blood-cell abnormalities is uncertain."

Here is the link if you want to read it yourself
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/r.../nol1299.shtml

**Johny-too-small** · 07-21-2007, 10:03 AM

I dont see how 3-4 weeks of nolva for pct is going to have any lasting ill side effects? Is good outweighs the bad, imo. Im more fearful of a-bombs and halo. Now if youre running nolva year round, that would be a different story.

**Maldorf** · 07-21-2007, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Johny-too-small

I dont see how 3-4 weeks of nolva for pct is going to have any lasting ill side effects? Is good outweighs the bad, imo. Im more fearful of a-bombs and halo. Now if youre running nolva year round, that would be a different story.

Exactly right. I only run it PCT. Some guys though run it druing their entire cycle instead of running something like arimidex . Those are the folks that might run into some trouble, especially when it is combined with oral AAS and higher doses of injectables.

**gixxerboy1** · 07-21-2007, 11:45 AM

If you read the warning on half the OTC products you take have similar warnings.

just because it has a warning can cause liver damage doesn't mean its hard on the liver we shouldn't use it.

People over act with a lot of stuff

**DHew** · 07-24-2007, 11:18 AM

Yeah, i wonder about a lot of "possible side effects" on drugs. Its almost like the cases of such side effects happening is so rare, but thanks to attorney happy america, the HAVE to be listed as a sort of disclaimer...kinda lame and scary.

**passthetest** · 07-24-2007, 01:46 PM

everything has possible side effects

**Atomini** · 07-24-2007, 02:11 PM

Use it responsibly and the way you should (i.e. for PCT and short durations) and you won't have any problems.

Us bodybuilders are not using Nolva at anywhere near the same length of time that women use it for breast cancer treatment. They are on it for YEARS, whereas we use it only for 4 weeks minimum and perhaps 12 weeks at maximum.

**sonnygll** · 07-24-2007, 03:52 PM

That's all part of the big clomid/nolva argument. One side says clomid is milder on sides and has little potential for any serious problems, where as some people could have issues with nolva. The other side says nolva is better because you can take a lower dose.

The clomid sides argument about the long term sides has been debunked because as stated above women take crazy high doses of all SERMS and AIs for years before they end up with those problems.
The nolva sides argument about it reducing estrogen has been obsolete since AIs came out.

The remaining argument for nolva of it's lower dose seems silly to me. It seems like apples and oranges since they are completely different drugs.

Also from what I understand nolva is not compatible with the much cheaper arimidex . I would only want to pop for a stronger AI if I really need it.

So that's my take on it, and why I prefer to increase test production with clomid. But obviously for a heavy cycle (or gyno prone person) where aromasin or letro is required, it isn't going to make much difference.

So while nolva has a potential to cause problems in some. If you tried it and it hasn't caused a problem, it almost certainly never will if you only take it 4 weeks at a time.

**passthetest** · 07-24-2007, 07:26 PM

wooo i thought clomid was supposed to have more sides?

**sonnygll** · 07-25-2007, 05:40 AM

Usually the only side effect is spending a lot of time watching the Lifetime network.

**DHew** · 07-25-2007, 09:01 AM

hahahahahahahahahahaha

**gym_rat_jason** · 07-25-2007, 09:10 AM

Yup also not forgetting even people who are using it troughout the cycle are different from women who are using it to treat breast cancer. THE ONE most obvious difference is that our test level are freakishly high when on nolva so i think the conditions in which the subjects that have been tested for(Side of Nolva) are different. What do you guys think?

**passthetest** · 07-25-2007, 09:13 AM

either way people have been taking it for pct for who knows how long...if it was as severe as those studies show then steroid users would have figurd it out before now.