Planning 3rd cycle

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 12:09 PM

Age 31
Weight 185lbs
Height 5'11
Training exp. 15yrs
Cycle Exp.
cycle 1 test-e 600mg/wk 13 weeks (clean bulk +21lbs)
cycle 2 SD 4weeks 20/20/30/30 (cut + 3lbs)
Goal for this cycle is to cut, LBM and strength

This is what I know I can get now:
Sust 250mg/ml 10ml
Winny 50mg/ml 60ml

Thinking about running it like this:
Week 1-8 Sust. 250mg/week (125mg inj. Mon./Thurs, Frontload first week)
Week 2-10 Winny 50mg ed

I'm trying to get my hands on some tren ...my buddy says I can run that by it self but based on my research I think that would be a bad idea. If I can get it, I thinking of:

Week 1-8 Sust. 250mg/week (125mg inj. Mon./Thurs, Frontload first week)
Week 2-10 Tren 75mg eod

Which one would be best? Should I wait?? Any opinions/suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

**buffgator** · 07-24-2007, 12:14 PM

sust needs to be at least 500mg per week
dont run winnie longer than 6 weeks
tren is a very advanced drug. Wait until you have allot more aas experiance and knowledge before running it.
I did not see any mention of pct

RA · 07-24-2007, 12:30 PM

I agree with the 500mgs but it should be ran 12 weeks.

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 12:36 PM

Pct is under control, I always buy that before the gear (AR's PCT has been working great for me so far) 18days after last sust. inj.

I was wondering if I should wait to jump into Tren ?? So the winny would be a good third cycle to stack with Sust for me? I didn't want run the test that high (500mg/wk), just wanted to keep my test levels up while on the winny to cut/strength. I'm not really looking to put on 15+lbs with this cycle. I'd really like to lean up, drop BF, and gain about 5lbs-10lbs. Does everyone feel it should be run at 500mg/wk?? I will drop the winny to 6 wks though

Week 1-6 Sust. 250mg/week (125mg inj. Mon./Thurs, Frontload 2 weeks)
Week 2-8 winny 50mg ed

Or should I keep the Sust. at 8 wks and do the winny wks 4-10??

**buffgator** · 07-24-2007, 01:02 PM

I hate to get you discouraged but you need at least 1 more bottle of sust. Like stated above it needs to be ran 12 weeks. I still would take 500mg of sust a week. It is my personal experiance that winnie has never put more than a pound on me.

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by buffgator

I hate to get you discouraged but you need at least 1 more bottle of sust. Like stated above it needs to be ran 12 weeks. I still would take 500mg of sust a week. It is my personal experiance that winnie has never put more than a pound on me.

Let me ask you this, if I purchased a second bottle that would still only be 10 weeks, so should I:

Wks 1-10 Sust. 500mg/wk every mon/thurs
Wks 6-12 winny 50mg ed

or

Wks 1-8 Sust. 500mg/wk 9-12 250mg/wk (i've heard good things about tapering off??)
Wks 9-14 winny 50mg ed

I would be adding an AI (A-dex) at .5mg ed from wk 1-PCT now too. Can I still do a cutting diet or clean bulk until wk 8, than start cutting?

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 02:21 PM

bump

**testisbest** · 07-24-2007, 02:26 PM

I think you're better off with a single ester test. Sust is for hrt purposes and I see you're planning on injecting it 2x a week so you'll waste the short ester test in the blend. IMO, run enanthate or cyp with mast prop or enanthate since you want a dht.

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 02:36 PM

If I run it eod at 125mg would that work?? That would still be 500mg/wk for 10 wks...Can't get my hands on any of the other esters, my source only has sust.

**testisbest** · 07-24-2007, 02:40 PM

That'll be fine and IMO winny can be used for 8 weeks as long as you use proper support.

**buffgator** · 07-24-2007, 02:57 PM

I would do just week 1-10 at 500mg per week. Does your source have any 1ml amps of sust, or any prop? You cut up and still gain lean muscle mass with this cycle.

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 02:57 PM

I've done a 4 wk SD with all support supps. so I know all about that and will be adding them one week prior to start of winny all the way through pct. not sure if I'll do 6 or 8 wks yet?

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by buffgator

I would do just week 1-10 at 500mg per week. Does your source have any 1ml amps of sust, or any prop? You cut up and still gain lean muscle mass with this cycle.

No, all he has is Sust. 250mg/ml 10ml. So 10wks 500mg/wk inj. eod at 125mg with 6 wks of winny at the end and I'll cut up and gain 10lbs of LBM with this cycle set up like this, right?

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 06:31 PM

Should I frontload at 1000mg the first week 500mg/wk after and do 8 total weeks of test w/a-dex at .5mg ed and add the winny 50mg ed week 5 to 10 sound good?

Or...

just go 10 weeks at 500mg/wk and add winny 50mg edweek 7 to 12 with a-dex at .5 ed??

**rabidsquirrel** · 07-24-2007, 06:41 PM

i dont think you need to run test at 500, 250 would be fine. i have run test at 250-300 plenly of time with great result.

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 06:50 PM

ok now I'm getting confused??

**rabidsquirrel** · 07-24-2007, 07:04 PM

alot of people say u have to run test at 500mg. not true. 250 would be plenty of test. i gained 20 pounds on a 6 week cycle of test c at 300mg a week. your goal is cutting, i would kept the test at 250mg a week for 6 weeks then add in the winny for 6weeks. and stop the test on week 10. looks like this

test weeks 1-10
winny weeks 6-12
pct weeks 12-16

good luck

**passthetest** · 07-24-2007, 07:23 PM

i prefer lower test i cant stand all the oil and acne

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by rabidsquirrel

alot of people say u have to run test at 500mg. not true. 250 would be plenty of test. i gained 20 pounds on a 6 week cycle of test c at 300mg a week. your goal is cutting, i would kept the test at 250mg a week for 6 weeks then add in the winny for 6weeks. and stop the test on week 10. looks like this

test weeks 1-10
winny weeks 6-12
pct weeks 12-16

good luck

See, that's what I was originally thinking, just enough test to make slight gains and keep for getting shut down while on the winny.

Any other opinions? please keep it coming

**Manpretty** · 07-24-2007, 07:24 PM

yeah dont listen to rabid....i dont think he knows what sust is...buff was giving you great advice

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 07:29 PM

Waz up Manpretty, how have you been. You and UpstateTank helped me put my SD cycle together about 4 months ago, thanks. What would you do with what I have access to. Your opinion would be appreciated.

**Manpretty** · 07-24-2007, 07:36 PM

sust 1-12.....remember most of its weight is from the enth and that is the reason for 12 weeks......shorter than that and you wont see the full benifit of the gear....500mg a week inj 3X a week keeping you blood levels more stable if thats possilbe with sust lol....im no expert on sust mind you

winny last 6 weeks 50-75mg ed

oh yeah and no need for tren just yet

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 07:38 PM

Cool, thanks bro. No need to frontload this than, either??

**Manpretty** · 07-24-2007, 07:43 PM

honestly its your thrid cycle man...take your time

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 07:59 PM

Yeah, WTF am I in such a rush for. Just getting excited I guess... should start in about a week.

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 08:08 PM

I only have enough in the budget for two bottles of the sust. 250mg/ml
so which do you think would work better, last question then I'll leave you alone,lol...

Wks 1-10 Sust. 500mg/wk
Wks 6-12 winny 50mg ed

or

Wks 1-8 Sust. 500mg/wk 9-12 250mg/wk (i've heard good things about tapering off??)
Wks 9-14 winny 50mg ed

PCT wk 14-18

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 09:20 PM

bump

**testisbest** · 07-24-2007, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by JROKK26

I only have enough in the budget for two bottles of the sust. 250mg/ml
so which do you think would work better, last question then I'll leave you alone,lol...

Wks 1-10 Sust. 500mg/wk
Wks 6-12 winny 50mg ed

or

Wks 1-8 Sust. 500mg/wk 9-12 250mg/wk (i've heard good things about tapering off??)
Wks 9-14 winny 50mg ed

PCT wk 14-18

I like the one in bold. Looks good even though I don't care for sust. Good luck. BTW, I don't care for tapering off.

**rabidsquirrel** · 07-24-2007, 09:49 PM

manpretty what the f*ck is your deal. u always want to start shit. have you done sust before. mister i only do orals. hes gonna gain a shit load of weight with 500mg a week. i would do 500 myself, but he said he was looking to cut so why so much test. he will gain weight with 250mg a week. and also might help him keep some of the bloat down. 12 week of sust is fine. i was just making it 10 because i had the impression he want it to be a short cycle.

**testisbest** · 07-24-2007, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by rabidsquirrel

manpretty what the f*ck is your deal. u always want to start shit. have you done sust before. mister i only do orals. hes gonna gain a shit load of weight with 500mg a week. i would do 500 myself, but he said he was looking to cut so why so much test. he will gain weight with 250mg a week. and also might help him keep some of the bloat down. 12 week of sust is fine. i was just making it 10 because i had the impression he want it to be a short cycle.

I agree, my first couple of test only cycles were around 200 to 300mg a week and I had fantastic results. As long as your diet, training, and rest are on point, there is no reason why one can't achieve the results the thread starter is looking with a lower dose. The only reason I've recommended 500mg a week is because of the sust blend and getting the most out of all the esters in there.

**JROKK26** · 07-24-2007, 10:41 PM

Will a 22 gauge 1 in. pin work for inj.??

**JROKK26** · 07-25-2007, 07:34 PM

Bump, know it's on here somewhere but I can't find it, What size pin should I use???

**buffgator** · 07-25-2007, 08:12 PM

22g 1 in for quads and delts, 23 gauge 1.5 in for glutes.

**JROKK26** · 07-25-2007, 10:16 PM

thanks again Buff...
This is what I've desided:

Wks 1-10 Sust. 500mg/wk
Wks 6-12 winny 50mg ed
.25mg Arimidex ED
all support supps starting two weeks pre winny through PCT ED
Multi V ED
Vit. C 6gs ED
Vit. E 1200IU ED

PCT 18 days after last inj. 24 hrs after winny
20mg Nolva ED
.25 Arimidex ED
CEE 2 caps pre and 2 caps pwo total 3gm ED
Myogenx 2 bottles 6 caps ED until gone
ECA Stack ED

Wish me luck... Had a dream I was jacked last night