PCT start depends on compounds and dosage,could be 8 weeks or longer after last shot!

[NewVader]

There are some things about body building community which totally lack logics...PCT start is one of those...
Everyone will tell you for test e start 2 weeks after last shot, for eq 3 weeks....even regardless of the dosage used...really? wait a minute
everyone agrees that as long as an exogoenous hormone is present in supraphysiological levels (to keep it simple more than 100mg) the body cannot recover its hpta...
then why reccommend such things as starting pct 3 weeks after last shot of eq..if you are doing 200 mg/week, maybe but if you are doing 600
take a look at this ( but you can do the calculations yourself)

http://www.bulkmuscle.com/pct/

if you run a cycle using eq at 600mg/week and the cycle has been longer than 7-8 weeks (so that the levels reach a steady state) you will see that after discontinuing injections the boldenone levels stay well above 100 mgs for about 7 and 1/2 weeks.... 3 weeks after the last shot you still have 535 mg of boldenone floating in your system and by the time your pct is over you will still be above normal levels meaning your pct has gone to waste...
notice that over there they use a half life of only 12 days which is pretty conservative, changing it to 16 days ( which I believe is more likely for eq) things get even worse and you will now need over 10 weeks..
if you do 800mgs or 1g week, than the time to wait would be even longer...
the same applies for deca, test undecaonate and all those long esters and even when using test enanthate giving a pct start of 2 weeks regardless of whether you are doing 250mg/week or 1.5 mg a week is pure madness as things would be drammatically different

no wonder in the drug profiles it is always stated that deca and eq will shut you down hard...if you follow the standard 3 weeks after pct protocol I bet they will as you basically will be coming off with no pct...

I therefore hope that everyone realizes that whoever does a cycle of 12 weeks of eq at 600 mg /week has actually been on for about 20 weeks and should start pct around that time

if you just want to stay on 10-12 weeks quit earlier or do short esters

it's not an opinion, it's math!!

peace!

[S431M7]

dude, every pct plan varies according to the androgen u used. For example harsh androgen like deca may require aggressive pct regiment while mild cycles like test only at a right dosage may only require some mellow pct cmpds. It basically depends on what you stack, the half- of your roid of choice, plus how prone u are to some of its side effects.

[customworksking]

what if u don't do a pct... and cycle off @ 1/2 a cc a week for 3 weeks ? or do i need to run a pct

[NewVader]

dude, every pct plan varies according to the androgen u used. For example harsh androgen like deca may require aggressive pct regiment while mild cycles like test only at a right dosage may only require some mellow pct cmpds. It basically depends on what you stack, the half- of your roid of choice, plus how prone u are to some of its side effects.

I am not discussing what KIND of pct, just when to START!!!

[magic32]

Your illustration is a good one, and much can be learned from it with respect to its origin---using higher dosages.
However, once again you have parroted someone's reasoning without gaining the single most important thing...'UNDERSTANDING'.

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
- Proverbs 4:7

As usual, I will attempt to illuminate you, but if history is any indicator you'll categorically deny true logic even though it stares you in the face...shall we begin?

There are some things about body building community which totally lack logics...PCT start is one of those...
THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE!
THERE IS GREAT LOGIC HERE, BUT ONE MUST COMPREHEND IT!

it's not an opinion, it's math!!
YES, IT IS BUT WHOSE MATH?
peace!

The reasoning you plagiarized is true but only in one sense.

It is a well known fact in Physics, Engineering, and Thermodynamics that no engineered system can encompass all the possible variables.

That is to say a car cannot be fast, spacious, comfortable, fuel efficient, and light all at the same time.

In other words, when employing "standardization" one must necessarily make certain sacrifices for the sake of the whole. I said that to say this, in the present case it should be noted that the two philosophies are founded on different mathematical principles each emphasizing a particular variable. Your system's formula is based on dosage, whereas the traditional pct plan sacrificed that dosage differential in favor of duration. Thus, if you proportionately accommodate changes in duration while maintaining dosage as a constant...there will be NO variance between the philosophies and the mathematical principles will work in harmonious precision.

For example...

With dosage as the IV (independent variable):

Enth 250 Tue/Fri for 12wks (84 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 98; your formula produces day 99ish; VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

x2

Enth 500 Tue/Fri for 12ks (84 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 98; your formula produces day 106ish; 8 DAY VARIANCE.

x2

Enth 1000 Tue/Fri for 12ks (84 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 98; your formula produces day 113ish; 15 DAY VARIANCE.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

With duration as the IV (independent variable):


Enth 250 Tue/Fri for 8wks (56 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 70; your formula produces day 71ish; VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

+ 4

Enth 250 Tue/Fri for 12wks (84 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 98; your formula produces day 99ish; VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

+ 4

Enth 250 Tue/Fri for 16wks (112 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 126; your formula produces day 127ish; VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

+ 4

Enth 250 Tue/Fri for 20wks (140 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 154; your formula produces day 155ish; VIRTUALLY THE SAME.


As indicated in my prelude, much can be learned from your illustration, and ideally one should consider the most relevant of the two factors when planning pct.
Nevertheless, one system's shortcomings does not negate its validity, and such can be said for either of them.

Thank you for helping enlightening the forum.

[NewVader]

Your illustration is a good one, and much can be learned from it with respect to its origin---using higher dosages.
However, once again you have parroted someone's reasoning without gaining the single most important thing...'UNDERSTANDING'.

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
- Proverbs 4:7

As usual, I will attempt to illuminate you, but if history is any indicator you'll categorically deny true logic even though it stares you in the face...shall we begin?



The reasoning you plagiarized is true but only in one sense.

It is a well known fact in Physics, Engineering, and Thermodynamics that no engineered system can encompass all the possible variables.

That is to say a car cannot be fast, spacious, comfortable, fuel efficient, and light all at the same time.

In other words, when employing "standardization" one must necessarily make certain sacrifices for the sake of the whole. I said that to say this, in the present case it should be noted that the two philosophies are founded on different mathematical principles each emphasizing a particular variable. Your system's formula is based on dosage, whereas the traditional pct plan sacrificed that dosage differential in favor of duration. Thus, if you proportionately accommodate changes in duration while maintaining dosage as a constant...there will be NO variance between the philosophies and the mathematical principles will work in harmonious precision.

For example...

With dosage as the IV (independent variable):

Enth 250 Tue/Fri for 12wks (84 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 98; your formula produces day 99ish; VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

x2

Enth 500 Tue/Fri for 12ks (84 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 98; your formula produces day 106ish; 8 DAY VARIANCE.

x2

Enth 1000 Tue/Fri for 12ks (84 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 98; your formula produces day 113ish; 15 DAY VARIANCE.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

With duration as the IV (independent variable):


Enth 250 Tue/Fri for 8wks (56 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 70; your formula produces day 71ish; VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

+ 4

Enth 250 Tue/Fri for 12wks (84 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 98; your formula produces day 99ish; VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

+ 4

Enth 250 Tue/Fri for 16wks (112 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 126; your formula produces day 127ish; VIRTUALLY THE SAME.

+ 4

Enth 250 Tue/Fri for 20wks (140 days)
Popular wisdom says pct begins on day 154; your formula produces day 155ish; VIRTUALLY THE SAME.


As indicated in my prelude, much can be learned from your illustration, and ideally one should consider the most relevant of the two factors when planning pct.
Nevertheless, one system's shortcomings does not negate its validity, and such can be said for either of them.

Thank you for helping enlightening the forum.

I am not trying to give a universal formula, I was just trying to prove my point and I know that in some istances the common protocol concises with the appropriate one...
There is no DURATION involved in my statement, there is just DOSAGE (the duration is just to make sure that you have reached a steady level, in other words what I was saying is not valid if you inject 600mg of eq for only 2 weeks) so just focus on the DOSAGE..

now magic you used test eananth and found a variance of 15 days in some cases at the higher dosages, that is still considerable, but my original post was focused on LONGER ESTERS, such as undecylenate, decaonate or undecaonate, the ones with a half life of over 2 weeks

could you please give the variance using, for example, equipoise at 800meg/week( for a number of weeks that allows steady state to be reached of course)?

thanks

[magic32]

YOU ALMOST GOT IT.

I am not trying to give a universal formula, I was just trying to prove my point and I know that in some istances the common protocol concises with the appropriate one...

WHAT? I'M GUESSING THAT'S SUPPOSED TO READ 'COINCIDES', AND THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE WAY YOU PRESENTED THIS INFORMATION. SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE BACK PEDALING INSTEAD OF STEPPING UP TO THE PLATE, BECAUSE YOUR INTIAL POSTING COMPLETELY INVALIDATED THE FORMER (COMMON PROTOCOL).

There is no DURATION involved in my statement, there is just DOSAGE (the duration is just to make sure that you have reached a steady level, in other words what I was saying is not valid if you inject 600mg of eq for only 2 weeks) so just focus on the DOSAGE..

PRECISELY, AND THEREIN LAYS THE ONE-SIDEDNESS OF IT.

now magic you used test eananth and found a variance of 15 days in some cases at the higher dosages, that is still considerable, but my original post was focused on LONGER ESTERS, such as undecylenate, decaonate or undecaonate, the ones with a half life of over 2 weeks

THIS WOULD BE SINGLE-MINDED, YOU ARE AGAIN FOCUSING ON ONLY ONE ASPECT (YOUR FORMULA). YES, THE 'DURATION' VERSION CHANGES VARIANCE WITH ESTER LENGTH, BUT SUCH CHANGES ARE IMMATERIAL WHEN DOSAGE AND DURATION RISE TOGETHER AS IN THE BELL-SHAPED CURVE. YOU CAN GIVE ME AN ESTER OF INFINITE LENGTH, AND IT CAN BE CALCULATED UNTIL I TIRE, BECAUSE FORMULAS/EQUATIONS ARE STATIC. HOW DO YOU THINK WE MEASURE CELESTIAL DISTANCE?

could you please give the variance using, for example, equipoise at 800meg/week( for a number of weeks that allows steady state to be reached of course)?

COME ON VADE, YOU KNOW WE DON'T HOLD HANDS AT AR, I GAVE YOU THE LOGISTICS ALONG WITH STATISTICAL AND REAL-WORLD EXAMPLES, THIS IS YOUR BABY, SO YOU RUN THE CALCULATIONS.

------------------------------------------

I'M NOT DELEGITIMIZING YOUR POINT, IT HAS WARRANT, AND IF YOU RECALL I ACTUALLY THANKED YOU FOR IT. I'M MERELY POINTING OUT THAT IT TOO HAS EARNEST SHORTCOMINGS IN APPLICABLILITY, AND THAT YOUR HARSH REPROOF OF PREVAILING PCT PROTOCOL...

There are some things about body building community which totally lack logics...PCT start is one of those...
- NewVader

...WAS GROUNDLESS.

[Big]

what if u don't do a pct... and cycle off @ 1/2 a cc a week for 3 weeks ? or do i need to run a pct

as I already advised in your other thread, you do need to run pct after your cycle.

[Super Intense]

YOU ALMOST GOT IT.

...WAS GROUNDLESS.

Hey Magic what if I stop my 250mg twice a week 500mg a week shot of Test Enanthate on day 22. When do I start PCT and what should I take and how many MG? I have access to Clomid and Nolva. I get some bad sides on Nolva.

Thanks

[NewVader]

YOU ALMOST GOT IT.

...WAS GROUNDLESS.

GOOD!!

I really hope that on this forum people will begin giving the advice of starting pct 7 weeks after a cycle of 600mg/w of equipoise...

[Property of Steroid.com]

To say that you need to start PCT X weeks after the last shot (depending on ester), you must first prove that there is no benefit to any PCT drugs prior to the steroids leaving your body. And, in fact, just the opposite is true.

"Do PCT X weeks after Y-ester" is totally incorrect. You start PCT right away, because the drugs can start putting a stop to HPTA inhibitory factors from AAS use immediately. There is no benefit to waiting, and in fact it's probably counter productive.

[Swifto]

To say that you need to start PCT X weeks after the last shot (depending on ester), you must first prove that there is no benefit to any PCT drugs prior to the steroids leaving your body. And, in fact, just the opposite is true.

"Do PCT X weeks after Y-ester" is totally incorrect. You start PCT right away, because the drugs can start putting a stop to HPTA inhibitory factors from AAS use immediately. There is no benefit to waiting, and in fact it's probably counter productive.

Do you mean by inhibiting the hypothalamus (by using AI/SERM's) even when were shutdown?

[Property of Steroid.com]

Maybe. But more than that, by inhibiting the negative feedback loop. By inhibiting the conversion of an androgen to an estrogen, we at very least know that we're inhibiting part of the negative feedback loop, and that in itself ought to start the recovery process to a degree.

[Swifto]

Maybe. But more than that, by inhibiting the negative feedback loop. By inhibiting the conversion of an androgen to an estrogen, we at very least know that we're inhibiting part of the negative feedback loop, and that in itself ought to start the recovery process to a degree.

But doesnt that rely on the amount of aromotase the AI can prevent? So Letro would be better at this, then say, Arimidex.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Partially, yes. Letro is much better at elevating testosterone than the other AIs. MesRx has a good article by Dharkam (which is actually IronMan author Mike Gundill) about using letro to raise testosterone.

Except for letro, and most people don't realize this, other AI's reduce estrogen to a level that is still physiologically acceptable (within the low end of the reference chart). Letro is the only one that just kills estrogen too much.

I think, though, it's too harsh for use on PCT. With a compromised level of androgens in your body, the last thing you want to do is compromise joint integrity with Letro. Maybe Letro and Finasteride, for the last few weeks leading up to the end of the cycle might be beneficial.

[Swifto]

Partially, yes. Letro is much better at elevating testosterone than the other AIs. **** has a good article by Dharkham (which is actually IronMan author Mike Gundill) about using letro to raise testosterone.

Except for letro, and most people don't realize this, other AI's reduce estrogen to a level that is still physiologically acceptable (within the low end of the reference chart). Letro is the only one that just kills estrogen too much.

I think, though, it's too harsh for use on PCT. With a compromised level of androgens in your body, the last thing you want to do is compromise joint integrity with Letro. Maybe Letro and Finasteride, for the last few weeks leading up to the end of the cycle might be beneficial.

Do you really think its worth it though? I mean, for the amount of estrogen that can be prevented with the use of Letro, is it really going to make recovery easier? Building plasma levels up and all that (4-5 weeks).

So your advice is to start PCT the day after your final shot, no matter what the ester, long or short?

I guess a SERM would have a similar action then, by inhibitong the hypothalamus, similar to an AI. Would your choice be and AI or SERM, or both during this time Tony?

[Property of Steroid.com]

Do you really think its worth it though? I mean, for the amount of estrogen that can be prevented with the use of Letro, is it really going to make recovery easier? Building plasma levels up and all that (4-5 weeks).

So your advice is to start PCT the day after your final shot, no matter what the ester, long or short?

I guess a SERM would have a similar action then, by inhibitong the hypothalamus, similar to an AI. Would your choice be and AI or SERM, or both during this time Tony?

I don't know if it's going to make recovery that much easier. Certainly a little, I think (logically).

You don't need to build the plasma levels up to steady state. You get maximum inhibition of estrogen much sooner, in only a few days.

I basically like to say start PCT a week after the last shot, on the day you'd be injecting anyway. It's a nice "clean" end to a cycle, I think, to start PCT injections on the day you'd be injecting any way.

And I like an AI and a SERM because they actually have a different MOA, and I think are complimentary. I don't like ****ing around and losing weeks of gains when it could have been stopped by a little more agressive measures on PCT.

[magic32]

Hey Magic what if I stop my 250mg twice a week 500mg a week shot of Test Enanthate on day 22. When do I start PCT and what should I take and how many MG? I have access to Clomid and Nolva. I get some bad sides on Nolva.

Thanks

Why would you want to do a thing like that?
You'd be essentially ending your long ester cycle prior to kick-in (substantial anyway).

You should review your research...Enth should be run at least 8wks for minimal benefit, 12+ for moderate to optimal effect.

And there's no need to run both Clom and Nolva for Enth (or any) pct...pick one and apply it appropriately. Of course some ne'er-do-well might bellow how much of either to take for how long, but I prefer letting the person do their own grunt work as learning is greater this way.

[magic32]

To say that you need to start PCT X weeks after the last shot (depending on ester), you must first prove that there is no benefit to any PCT drugs prior to the steroids leaving your body. And, in fact, just the opposite is true.
VERY TRUE.

"Do PCT X weeks after Y-ester" is totally incorrect. You start PCT right away, because the drugs can start putting a stop to HPTA inhibitory factors from AAS use immediately. There is no benefit to waiting, and in fact it's probably counter productive.
WELL-REASONED.

And I like an AI and a SERM because they actually have a different MOA, and I think are complimentary. I don't like ****ing around and losing weeks of gains when it could have been stopped by a little more agressive measures on PCT.
ME TOO!

Thanks for the insight Anthony.
Great questions Swift.

[NewVader]

To say that you need to start PCT X weeks after the last shot (depending on ester), you must first prove that there is no benefit to any PCT drugs prior to the steroids leaving your body. And, in fact, just the opposite is true.

"Do PCT X weeks after Y-ester" is totally incorrect. You start PCT right away, because the drugs can start putting a stop to HPTA inhibitory factors from AAS use immediately. There is no benefit to waiting, and in fact it's probably counter productive.

I have the feeling that you are talking about rather long PCTs here, like 8-12 weeks, are you not?
The vast majority of people have their pcts lasting 30 days at many even less than that.
If they begin, pct 1 week after the last eq shot (when say the compound was run at or above 600mg/week) and they end 4 weeks after that, when their pct has ended the exogenous hormone is still at supraphysiological levels...and I suspect that even if the negative feedback has been put to a stop they have not regained their htpa
Would you still reccomend starting pct 1 week after a long ester last shot
when your pct is only 3-4 weeks long?

[MANchild]

Sorry Im a bit confused now and was wondering what a good rule of thumb would be as far as pct using test eod for 10 weeks. I understand that is really can depend on the person but this is new to me and not sure what to expect.

[thunderin]

This thread is the main reason why I will never use long-estered AAS again.

Nice program for showing active/half life.

[NewVader]

This thread is the main reason why I will never use long-estered AAS again.

Nice program for showing active/half life.

Well, yes people should relize that there is a big difference between doing a 12 cycle of test prop/drost prop and a 12 week cycle Sus/eq, the difference being you have been on about 7 weeks longer for the latter (provided the dosages were on or above 600mg/week)

Anthony, still awaiting a response for my last question....

[TampaMan]

From an engineering prospective...bioenginering....half-life is half life, IF it is true that the extraneous hormone is still present at levels above 100mg after a "normal" 4-5 week pct...then once the ai's and serms are gone the left over hormone is still present to create havoc to the hpta.
It is weather or not the rate at which the body expells long estered hormones really follows a perfect rate curve for the entire 7-8 weeks, like proposed, is out for question.
Im about to run deca at 500mg/w for 10 weeks and test e for 12 at 750mg/w
(so i'm now thinking harder)
I do agree that something should be started a week or so after the last shot of anything,to counter estrogen effects, but for long esters at mildly high levels, it seems pct might need be run past the half life =<100mg....6 or more weeks.??????????????????????
Now I'm confused and need to start some research from the ground up...PUBMED...here I come

[NewVader]

From an engineering prospective...bioenginering....half-life is half life, IF it is true that the extraneous hormone is still present at levels above 100mg after a "normal" 4-5 week pct...then once the ai's and serms are gone the left over hormone is still present to create havoc to the hpta.
It is weather or not the rate at which the body expells long estered hormones really follows a perfect rate curve for the entire 7-8 weeks, like proposed, is out for question.
Im about to run deca at 500mg/w for 10 weeks and test e for 12 at 750mg/w
(so i'm now thinking harder)
I do agree that something should be started a week or so after the last shot of anything,to counter estrogen effects, but for long esters at mildly high levels, it seems pct might need be run past the half life =<100mg....6 or more weeks.??????????????????????
Now I'm confused and need to start some research from the ground up...PUBMED...here I come

imo there is nothing to be confused...
Math is math and if the half life for the specific compound is accurate than that will be the rate curve...
with the compounds and dosages you mentioned you will have exogenous hormones below 100mg about 30 days after your last shot
So i think your pct should be run for at least 3 weeks and even 4 past that time.
As Roberts described (bte he still hasn't replied to my question for him) there are benefits in starting pct early, so you could start 1 week after your last shot, but imo you should not stop until 8 weeks past your last shot
If you have only 4 weeks worth of pct I would do it 30 days after last shot, no doubt about that.
we all agree that if the exogenous hormones are present in too large quantities your htpa can't be regained , therefore there is not much to research about, it is just math and common knowledge...

[Merc..]

imo there is nothing to be confused...
Math is math and if the half life for the specific compound is accurate than that will be the rate curve...
with the compounds and dosages you mentioned you will have exogenous hormones below 100mg about 30 days after your last shot
So i think your pct should be run for at least 3 weeks and even 4 past that time.
As Roberts described (bte he still hasn't replied to my question for him) there are benefits in starting pct early, so you could start 1 week after your last shot, but imo you should not stop until 8 weeks past your last shot
If you have only 4 weeks worth of pct I would do it 30 days after last shot, no doubt about that.
we all agree that if the exogenous hormones are present in too large quantities your htpa can't be regained , therefore there is not much to research about, it is just math and common knowledge...

Hmmmm , k !!!!

[TampaMan]

I don’t know what you mean by it's just math....Do you know how long it can take to accurately describe a phenomena by a math equation. Especially that of the human body....it's not a machine as we all would like to think. (we can try to make it one though DA** it)

But I'm in agreement with your argument about remaining hormones in the system after only 4 weeks....bad for hpta. Period

The problem is that most studies that were done on test and others did not study effects of large dosages for extended periods of time. Most studies more closely resembled a HRT program...so that perfect rate curve that was published way back when may not be true over the whole time period. It may decline by 75% in the first week...since the concentration is so high and then once the concentration gradient is lower it declines at a slower rate. There are more variables here than ANY of us will even understand completly.

Please someone show me a recent study exemplifying high dosages of Deca over a period of 12 weeks and then the decline in the hormone over the next 10 weeks....15 weeks....78 weeks(1.5 years for deca right?)....it can still be found in your system for much longer than a 2 or even 3 week half life curve would describe.


The point here is that it is probably safer to trust experience than "math"
When I get time after tommorow I will see if I can find more real info.
But for now, on with the studies, test manana...........Mass Transfer!

[TampaMan]

B.T.W.

Given:
800mgs at constant level in system at day 1 of pct
half life of compound = 2 weeks

Find: time it takes to be below 100mgs

800/2 = 400 at day 14

400/2 = 200 at day 28

200/2 = 100 at day 42

6 weeks would be the maximum amount of time levels could be above 100mgs given the information currently here...which is not much...a basic half life#

also there is a big diffrence between active life and half life.
8 weeks?

[NewVader]

B.T.W.

Given:
800mgs at constant level in system at day 1 of pct
half life of compound = 2 weeks

Find: time it takes to be below 100mgs

800/2 = 400 at day 14

400/2 = 200 at day 28

200/2 = 100 at day 42

6 weeks would be the maximum amount of time levels could be above 100mgs given the information currently here...which is not much...a basic half life#

also there is a big diffrence between active life and half life.
8 weeks?

you would be correct except for the fact that if you have been on 600mg/w of eq for more than 8 weeks you have about 1.5g of boldenone buildup, NOT 800mg!!!!
so try repeating with this value..

and you will get about 8 weeks!

[NewVader]

I don’t know what you mean by it's just math....Do you know how long it can take to accurately describe a phenomena by a math equation. Especially that of the human body....it's not a machine as we all would like to think. (we can try to make it one though DA** it)

But I'm in agreement with your argument about remaining hormones in the system after only 4 weeks....bad for hpta. Period

The problem is that most studies that were done on test and others did not study effects of large dosages for extended periods of time. Most studies more closely resembled a HRT program...so that perfect rate curve that was published way back when may not be true over the whole time period. It may decline by 75% in the first week...since the concentration is so high and then once the concentration gradient is lower it declines at a slower rate. There are more variables here than ANY of us will even understand completly.

Please someone show me a recent study exemplifying high dosages of Deca over a period of 12 weeks and then the decline in the hormone over the next 10 weeks....15 weeks....78 weeks(1.5 years for deca right?)....it can still be found in your system for much longer than a 2 or even 3 week half life curve would describe.


The point here is that it is probably safer to trust experience than "math"
When I get time after tommorow I will see if I can find more real info.
But for now, on with the studies, test manana...........Mass Transfer!

and BTW,

1

half life is VALID in human body, in fact that half life is obtained observing at what rate the body metabolizes the drug...

2

i think you are a bit confused when you say that for deca is 1.5 years, that has nothing to do with the drug's half life, that concerns the life of its METABOLITES (that are still present after 1.5 years, but the drug itself has been gone for long!!)