T3/clen

**Suworu~Nutsuki** · 08-14-2007, 02:09 PM

I know, I know this topic has been done a million times, i just cant seem to find the answer to my question; i know at higher doses it is catabolic but would it be ok to run a small dose say 20 -40mcgs along side clen without any Anabolics and not lose muscle?

thanks

**fatrock** · 08-14-2007, 02:34 PM

Stats?
Diet?

It is a great thought, but i am sure that you would experience minimal muscle loss still even if unoticed. I have used clen from lion because of its anti catabolic effect and experienced great results but I have mainly used T3 with clen while on anabolics. You could give it a try and let us know although loss may vary depending on stats and diet.
good luck

**Suworu~Nutsuki** · 08-14-2007, 02:51 PM

im 21, 81kg 5'6 bout 15%bf
I have been on a cutting diet for quite a while high protein 300g or so
bout 200g carbs i have used clen in the past and i do think it is good i was just hoping to use some t3 for that extra kick...
I could use it within a cycle but I do want to put on some more mass 1st and i know if you use t3 you do not put on much muscle even on cycle.

**Atomini** · 08-14-2007, 03:52 PM

I've used 160mcgs per day of T3 while cutting WITHOUT STEROIDS and I didn't get any muscle loss. It could just be me and my body type, though. I would say start at a low dose and slowly work your way up. If you notice strength loss in the gym, then just stop or lower the dose.

**moush** · 08-14-2007, 07:55 PM

a cutting diet with 200g carbs? thats way too high

**Suworu~Nutsuki** · 08-15-2007, 01:10 AM

I wouldnt say way to high but maybe a tad, i normaly cycle them through out the week though. My maintaining cal is bout 3000 and im on bout 2500 at the moment.

**buckeyefootball4** · 08-15-2007, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by moush

a cutting diet with 200g carbs? thats way too high

even for a athlete strength training three-five days per week and running 5 days per week.

**(1*)** · 08-15-2007, 03:44 AM

too much carbs and calories for a cutting cycle. keep the protien up and down the carbs..... like, a lot.

**buckeyefootball4** · 08-15-2007, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by (1*)

too much carbs and calories for a cutting cycle. keep the protien up and down the carbs..... like, a lot.

i disagree, if you have a track and field athlete trying to cut his carb intake could be a lil higher since hes more active.

**magic32** · 08-15-2007, 10:47 AM

Talk about multi-faceted; this thread is all over the place!
I hope this helps:

Originally Posted by Atomini

I've used 160mcgs per day of T3 while cutting WITHOUT STEROIDS and I didn't get any muscle loss. It could just be me and my body type, though. I would say start at a low dose and slowly work your way up. If you notice strength loss in the gym, then just stop or lower the dose.

There was obviously something wrong with your T3, at that dosage (more suited to Clen than T3) for any amount of time, you should have looked like Brad Pitt's LITTLE brother...meaning very small. Body type has NOTHING to do with thyroidal hormonal messaging. You should try a new source or verify your conversions.

Real T3 run off cycle, even at low doses WILL cause muscle loss, and Clen's mild anti-catabolic effect is not significant enough to offset this. I've run the two of them together off cycle to experience this phenomenon, and trust me it's quite true. Oh, you'll get ripped...what's left of you!
----------------------------

Originally Posted by Suworu~Nutsuki

im 21, 81kg 5'6 bout 15%bf
I have been on a cutting diet for quite a while high protein 300g or so
bout 200g carbs i have used clen in the past and i do think it is good i was just hoping to use some t3 for that extra kick...
I could use it within a cycle but I do want to put on some more mass 1st and i know if you use t3 you do not put on much muscle even on cycle.

This couldn't be further from the truth!
On cycle one can run T3 throughout at high dosages w/o hindering muscle gains. Not only do they work by different mechanisms, but gear (a Test-based or oral only cycle) is far to anabolic to be disrupted by T3's catabolism.
---------------------------

Originally Posted by moush

a cutting diet with 200g carbs? thats way too high

This may or may not be true as amounts vary based on goals, obviously Joe bb'er won't be as extreme as Webb would during pre-contest. But I think the bigger point Moush is making here is that, and some may debate it, some cycle mandates should not be breached due to personal need.
SEE BELOW

Buckeye,
You have a good point which makes a lot of sense, namely that carb needs are greater for athletes, and that they should be increased accordingly. But this logic does not readily translate to aas cycling.

The counter argument would be: firstly, cutting cycles demand low carb intake for a variety of reasons which you should research; secondly, the cycle (being elective) should take precedence, thus if the athlete's requirements dictate something contrary to the cycle requirements, then that particular cycle shouldn't be run (at least not while the restraints apply); and thirdly, there are numerous synthetic energy resources the athlete could avail himself of in order to replace the mandated carb deficiency...they are called central nervous system stimulants.

**Suworu~Nutsuki** · 08-15-2007, 12:53 PM

thanks magic good information, i just want to check again sorry just for peace of mind.... if i run clen and t3 through out my next cycle it wont make any difference to the amount of muscle i will put on?

**magic32** · 08-18-2007, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Suworu~Nutsuki

thanks magic good information, i just want to check again sorry just for peace of mind.... if i run clen and t3 through out my next cycle it wont make any difference to the amount of muscle i will put on?

There is anecdotal evidence to suggest that Clen may adversely affect cycle gains, I don't know how credible it is, nor have I seen any clinical support but it's significant enough to be reshaping bb'er consciousness.

T3 will not adversely effect cycle gains.

**Atomini** · 08-18-2007, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by magic32

Talk about multi-faceted; this thread is all over the place!
I hope this helps:

There was obviously something wrong with your T3, at that dosage (more suited to Clen than T3) for any amount of time, you should have looked like Brad Pitt's LITTLE brother...meaning very small. Body type has NOTHING to do with thyroidal hormonal messaging. You should try a new source or verify your conversions.

Real T3 run off cycle, even at low doses WILL cause muscle loss, and Clen's mild anti-catabolic effect is not significant enough to offset this. I've run the two of them together off cycle to experience this phenomenon, and trust me it's quite true. Oh, you'll get ripped...what's left of you!

It was AR-R 's clen. The stuff raised my body temperature, but I didn't see any muscle loss. Didn't see any extraordinary fat loss either, just a little bit. And I only started the Clen 3 weeks into my T3. I swear, this T3 doesn't work for me like everyone claims it does, and it didn't make me lose muscle as everyone claims it does. Was it underdosed? I don't know. All I know is i'm never ordering from ARR again.

**scriptfactory** · 08-18-2007, 01:45 PM

All I can say is, I've run T3 without AAS several times (I've only done one cycle) and my muscle loss has been minimal. I noticed my muscles get softer while running it so it makes me believe that I have lost muscle however after the cycle is over the hardness and size returns.