Would appreciate some opinions from vets on first cycle attempt...

[NeverSummer29]

Ok so after years of training natural I've decided to honestly see what this whole "steroid" thing is all about. I've always been interested in trying it to see the gains that can be accomplised with the extra help.. I've also been stuck at 185 unless I'm eating 6,000 calories a day which is just impossible for me now that I've stopped playing football in college (I was up to 192, but again, this was eating around 6,000 calories a day which was funded by the school).

Ok so my stats are:

26 years old, 5'11, 180-185 pounds (depends on the day really), excellent health, very good physique, and have been lifting for about 10 years.

I'd love to see strength results, mass gain (10-20 pounds), even more ripped physique, and increased athletic perfomance (speed, power, etc...)

I'm thinking, after some research, of starting off my cycle with 400mgs/wk TEST E (considering it seems to be the most widely used).. and of using an anabolic oral such as Dbol (50mgs for 4 weeks) and combining it eventually w/ long acting injectable Deca... Then follow up with Nolvadex, (possibly Clomid) and HCG... ??

I'm thinking of running the cycle for maybe 8 weeks to see if my body reacts properly..

I'm new to this I won't lie so I'm sure you all have opinions out there or probably think my cycle looks like crap, which I'm sure it does.

I'm not to familiar with PCT so if anyone could maybe revise or correct it for me with proper doses I'd greatly appreciate it. Or even if you could direct me in the right direction for better research on my part I'd also be very happy.

Thanks so much, look forward to getting my cycle torn apart!

[Merc..]

Ok so after years of training natural I've decided to honestly see what this whole "steroid" thing is all about. I've always been interested in trying it to see the gains that can be accomplised with the extra help.. I've also been stuck at 185 unless I'm eating 6,000 calories a day which is just impossible for me now that I've stopped playing football in college (I was up to 192, but again, this was eating around 6,000 calories a day which was funded by the school).

Ok so my stats are:

26 years old, 5'11, 180-185 pounds (depends on the day really), excellent health, very good physique, and have been lifting for about 10 years.

I'd love to see strength results, mass gain (10-20 pounds), even more ripped physique, and increased athletic perfomance (speed, power, etc...)

I'm thinking, after some research, of starting off my cycle with 400mgs/wk TEST E (considering it seems to be the most widely used).. and of using an anabolic oral such as Dbol (50mgs for 4 weeks) and combining it eventually w/ long acting injectable Deca... Then follow up with Nolvadex, (possibly Clomid) and HCG... ??

I'm thinking of running the cycle for maybe 8 weeks to see if my body reacts properly..

I'm new to this I won't lie so I'm sure you all have opinions out there or probably think my cycle looks like crap, which I'm sure it does.

I'm not to familiar with PCT so if anyone could maybe revise or correct it for me with proper doses I'd greatly appreciate it. Or even if you could direct me in the right direction for better research on my part I'd also be very happy.

Thanks so much, look forward to getting my cycle torn apart!

This is not a flame please dont take it the wrong way.. Your proposed cycle is awful ..

Test e is a long acting ester and needs to be used at least 10 weeks ..

Deca is long chain ester also and needs 10 wks min also , plus you would not use the deca as you proposed . Start both at the tougher ( if you are going to use both together in a first cycle).

Imo you could just use 400-500 mg test e per wk for 10 -12 wks

Could possibly use dbol as a kick if you wanted to..

Please click the link hookers pct is I think its the best protocol..


Merc.

[Merc..]

Oh forgot to add . Proper diet and training protocols are whats going to get you where you want to be not stacking tons of compounds ..


Merc.

[perfectbeast2001]

agree with merc. stick to test alone mate and follow a very good PCT. The cycle above is not good.

[auslifta]

for 8 week first cycle, i'd suggest front loading test e, and run 500mg a week agree with above drop dbol and deca. look up anthony roberts PCT

[sonnygll]

I agree, test only, frontloaded e or cyp. So look up frontloading. You will need an AI, so look that up. Then nolva or clomid should be in the PCT, but no hcg, you don't need that. So look up PCT. Then try posting the cycle you come up with from that.

[hugoboss]

What they said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Save the deca for later cycles, if your diet is good there will be more...

[NeverSummer29]

Hey guys I totally appreciate the information...

So you suggest frontloading Test E alone basically? I just figured that may not be enough? But again I'm totally new to this..

Do you suggest anything else during the use of test E to keep unwanted side effects out? Or do you think a solid PCT will do that for me?

I will look up PCT and get back to you with what I've found.. I figure a 12 week cycle then will be fine to see how my body reacts. I will get back to you though

Oh yea, my diet is prety strict.. I'm eating good 90% of the time, 5+meals a day.. Probably getting 3,500-4,000 calories a day and I'm only 180 pounds. So I figure eating big will aid me along the way!

Thanks

[RA]

A run of test alone should give you the results you were looking for in your original post.

[testisbest]

IMO, don't front load and run dbol for the first 4 weeks at 30 to 40mg a day. Run the test at 400 to 500mg a week for 12 weeks and start pct on week 14. An ai and a serm will be sufficient for this cycle.

[NeverSummer29]

ok so for a pct do you think this would be efficient for a 10 week cycle?

Weeks 10-12 - Nolva at 10 mg's daily

Week 13 - 20mg nolva+ 100mg clomid
Week 14 - 20mg nolva+ 50mg clomid
Week 15 - 20mg nolva+ 50mg clomid (all of this daily)

Anthony Roberts has HCG mixed in for his PCT, but I've read opinions that it isn't all that necessary

And is the PCT administered in the same area as the Test? In the upper gluteal?

I'm thinking too for Test to Frontload for 2 weeks at 750mg and then continue at 500mg for weeks 3-10... Opinions? Or should I go 2x at 1000mgs?

[Merc..]

ok so for a pct do you think this would be efficient for a 10 week cycle?

Weeks 10-12 - Nolva at 10 mg's daily

Week 13 - 20mg nolva+ 100mg clomid
Week 14 - 20mg nolva+ 50mg clomid
Week 15 - 20mg nolva+ 50mg clomid (all of this daily)

Anthony Roberts has HCG mixed in for his PCT, but I've read opinions that it isn't all that necessary

And is the PCT administered in the same area as the Test? In the upper gluteal?

I'm thinking too for Test to Frontload for 2 weeks at 750mg and then continue at 500mg for weeks 3-10... Opinions? Or should I go 2x at 1000mgs?

I assume you mean can HCG be shot IM like test ??????

Answer
Hcg can be used sub-q or IM.. Just in case ... Subcutaneous ( in the fat around your belly button area using a insulin syringe..)

Merc.

[d_nelly78]

I am no vet but I have done a few cycles. My first cycle was test e at 500mg week for 8 weeks and I saw great results. I only took clomid for PCT and I wish I would have done Pheedno's PCT. It is under the PCT section. That is my PCT regimen from now on.

[Merc..]

Oh shit he only wanted vets to answer .. Please disregard all my post as I am only a monitor not a vet ... Just playing

LOL..

Merc.

[sonnygll]

ok so for a pct do you think this would be efficient for a 10 week cycle?

Weeks 10-12 - Nolva at 10 mg's daily

Week 13 - 20mg nolva+ 100mg clomid
Week 14 - 20mg nolva+ 50mg clomid
Week 15 - 20mg nolva+ 50mg clomid (all of this daily)

Anthony Roberts has HCG mixed in for his PCT, but I've read opinions that it isn't all that necessary

And is the PCT administered in the same area as the Test? In the upper gluteal?

I'm thinking too for Test to Frontload for 2 weeks at 750mg and then continue at 500mg for weeks 3-10... Opinions? Or should I go 2x at 1000mgs?

Uh, I said nolva OR clomid. Not both. Also while HCG is a good thing, it is for a more advanced and or longer cycle. You don't need it yet.

In your other post you asked about something to take with the test to counteract side effects. Remember when I said look up AI? That would be what you're asking about. arimidex is a cheap and effective, great for running during the cycle to prevent estrogen related sides. Now if you go with clomid for the PCT you can run it during PCT too. However many people like nolva better. If you want to run nolva, you should switch to aromasin for PCT. This is because nolva will decrease blood plasma levels of arimidex making it less effective.

Why frontload a long ester test? Well look it up and check out the graphs of how it affects testosterone levels. After looking at the graphs it's a no brainer.

All this information and more is out there in previous posts. Just use the search and or look at some of the stickys for more details.

It is 1000 for the first week to front load. So 500 for the first 2 shots and 250 for each additional. Twice a week evenly spaced. Monday early and Thursday late as an example.

[RA]

Uh, I said nolva OR clomid. Not both. Also while HCG is a good thing, it is for a more advanced and or longer cycle. You don't need it yet.

In your other post you asked about something to take with the test to counteract side effects. Remember when I said look up AI? That would be what you're asking about. arimidex is a cheap and effective, great for running during the cycle to prevent estrogen related sides. Now if you go with clomid for the PCT you can run it during PCT too. However many people like nolva better. If you want to run nolva, you should switch to aromasin for PCT. This is because nolva will decrease blood plasma levels of arimidex making it less effective.

Why frontload a long ester test? Well look it up and check out the graphs of how it affects testosterone levels. After looking at the graphs it's a no brainer.

All this information and more is out there in previous posts. Just use the search and or look at some of the stickys for more details.

It is 1000 for the first week to front load. So 500 for the first 2 shots and 250 for each additional. Twice a week evenly spaced. Monday early and Thursday late as an example.

In my experience nolva and clomid is much more effective than just running one...

[sonnygll]

So you run nolva, clomid and AI like aromasin? Or just nolva and clomid without the AI?

I always heard they don't help each other. But that's just what I read on here. I never tried it so I don't know first hand.

[NeverSummer29]

So Pheedno says this:

PCT for cycles 8-16wks:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva

Has anyone else used L-dex in PCT? Does it really keep help keep gains than just Clomid and Nolva alone? Seems feasible after reading Pheedno's post. I would figure being able to drop Clomid down to 50mg a day after week 1 would be ok..

An

Uh, I said nolva OR clomid. Not both. Also while HCG is a good thing, it is for a more advanced and or longer cycle. You don't need it yet.

In your other post you asked about something to take with the test to counteract side effects. Remember when I said look up AI? That would be what you're asking about. arimidex is a cheap and effective, great for running during the cycle to prevent estrogen related sides. Now if you go with clomid for the PCT you can run it during PCT too. However many people like nolva better. If you want to run nolva, you should switch to aromasin for PCT. This is because nolva will decrease blood plasma levels of arimidex making it less effective.

Why frontload a long ester test? Well look it up and check out the graphs of how it affects testosterone levels. After looking at the graphs it's a no brainer.

All this information and more is out there in previous posts. Just use the search and or look at some of the stickys for more details.

It is 1000 for the first week to front load. So 500 for the first 2 shots and 250 for each additional. Twice a week evenly spaced. Monday early and Thursday late as an example.

Now I get the part about evenly spacing TEST E but you do mean 500mg twice a week just for week one right? No need to frontload a 2nd week? I've been reading and have seen mixed results..

Also you think running arimidex during the cycle is fine? I figured running Novla during it would be ok? Just a little confused and would like things set straight

[sonnygll]

Yes just 500mg twice a week for the first week. Then you got your peak levels and you're good to go. So then 250mg twice a week keeps your levels there.

Otherwise your level don't peak until 7 weeks in or so. I have seen people say sides start sooner. But that's something you should be ready for before starting this anyway.

I think arimidex is good for during the cycle. Nolva is a SERM and not an AI. while it does help suppress estrogen it's not as good as using an AI. Before AI's people used to run nolva during the cycle. Now usually people run arimidex during the cycle unless gyno is particular problem and they need a stronger AI. Then they either keep using it through PCT with clomid, or they switch to aromasin and run nolva for PCT.

Basically, all you are trying to do is not grow tits during your cycle. Then when it's over you are trying to get your natural test production up as quick as possible. I like to add tribulis to my PCT as well.

The whole nolva/clomid thing sounds like "tastes great/less filling" to me. I'd say research them and pick one. You really just have to spend some time reading and kind of make up your own mind. Everyone has opinions. You just have to learn and form your own. As you can see above there is a very experienced guy here who says he likes both. Sometimes it kind of boils down to what works better for each individual.

[Panzerfaust]

Wow..lots of clutter in this thread.

I also agree that a Test E only cycle would rock your world and you would see good results provided your diet and training are good.

You could do 500mg EW and use Aromasin 12.5mg ED.

If you are going to frontload (I would recommend it) then you will take 1g your first shot, then your next one will go back down to 250mg and be that way for the rest of the cycle.

You can use several different serms and AI's for PCT. A highly recommended combo is Toremefine Citrate & Aromasin.

You are gonna have to make sure your diet is good to get the most out of it.

[NeverSummer29]

Do you think .25 - .5mg of Arimidex a day would be suffiecient during the cycle? Or should I do something like .5mg every other day?

I just want to make sure everything is done properly through the cycle

So basically it'll look like this

Week 1 - 1g of TEST
Week 2-12 - 500mg of TEST (weekly)
Week 1-12 - .25mg Arimidex (daily)

PCT
Week 12-16 - .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva (daily)

How does it look?

[Panzerfaust]

Do you think .25 - .5mg of Arimidex a day would be suffiecient during the cycle? Or should I do something like .5mg every other day?

I just want to make sure everything is done properly through the cycle

So basically it'll look like this

Week 1 - 1g of TEST
Week 2-12 - 500mg of TEST (weekly)
Week 1-12 - .25mg Arimidex (daily)

PCT
Week 12-16 - .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva (daily)

How does it look?

To make this clear, lets say you start on a Saturday at 7pm, you would take 1g Test E and then 250mg on Wed at 7am and then another 250mg on Sat at 7pm etc.

You don't shoot 1g Test E and then not take another until the following week.

[NeverSummer29]

Ok I thought it would be

500mg TEST on let's say saturday at 7pm

500mg TEST on Wednesday at 7pm

Then bump it down to 250mg TEST saturday at 7pm (and on+on+on...)

I didn't know I should take the entire 1g shot all at once... I thought I should split it into 2 shots (Saturday + Wednesday) meaning that I would take 1g throughout the week

[J*U*icEd]

well im not a vet so i guess my opinions are not needed here... i hate the fact that you newbs think that the vets are the ones with the all the answers that are going to make ur dreams come true... ill just leave it at that

[pr0digy9daniel]

Im no vet, so you dont need to trust my opinion, but test enanthate alone for 12 weeks will give you the gains you want for a first time cycle. Im assuming your a hard gainer, and have never done any steroids before. You are probably ok with 400mg/wk... I would keep the PCT simple, you may not need everything, sometimes its better to just use one or two and keep the rest on standby just to control side effects.... Nolva/Clomid works well...

[Njord]

To make this clear, lets say you start on a Saturday at 7pm, you would take 1g Test E and then 250mg on Wed at 7am and then another 250mg on Sat at 7pm etc.

You don't shoot 1g Test E and then not take another until the following week.

MNinja,
This is a little different than what I have read on most forums. Most say to frontload, double the dose for the first week (ie. for a 500mg/week cycle do two shots of 500mg the first week and then drop down to 250mg twice/week for the remainder of cycle.)
I'm not arguing with a vet (especially a fighting one) but 1g of Test seems an awful lot for a single shot

[NeverSummer29]

Hey guys I mean no offense when I say "vets"

By "vets" I just mean veterans with experience... I don't mean it as your profile needs to say "vet"

I respect any of your decisions especially those who have tons of experience..

So if you know what your talking about I'll definitly respect it!!! Thanks!

I'm just trying to get a couple "ok's" on the cycle I proposed!

[BG]

Just run test-e at 500mgs ew for ten weeks, no front load, no d-bol. Get used to injecting, see how you react to hormone increases and get one under you belt , then move on to other things. Youll get plenty out of that if diet, training and rest are in check.

[Amorphic]

Just run test-e at 500mgs ew for ten weeks, no front load, no d-bol. Get used to injecting, see how you react to hormone increases and get one under you belt , then move on to other things. Youll get plenty out of that if diet, training and rest are in check.

Thankyou...the simple easy solution to a first cycle, thats all there is to it.

Make sure your pct is in order, you will lose all your gains without proper pct. check out the pct forum and get one together, its more important than your cycle even.

[NeverSummer29]

Thankyou...the simple easy solution to a first cycle, thats all there is to it.

Make sure your pct is in order, you will lose all your gains without proper pct. check out the pct forum and get one together, its more important than your cycle even.

What do you think of this cycle w/ PCT???

Week 1 - 1g of TEST
Week 2-10 - 400mg of TEST (weekly)
Week 1-10 - .25mg Arimidex (daily)

PCT
Week 12-16 - .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva (daily)

How does it look?

[NeverSummer29]

Just run test-e at 500mgs ew for ten weeks, no front load, no d-bol. Get used to injecting, see how you react to hormone increases and get one under you belt , then move on to other things. Youll get plenty out of that if diet, training and rest are in check.

What do you propose for an AI and PCT Big Guns???

I'm wondering if you think my PCT and using A-dex during the cycle is ok?

[repdanger]

For a first cycle, just go with 400-500 mg of Test E a week for 10 weeks then PCT and you'll be fine. No need to do more than that.