This is my cycle

[JuicyJuiceface]

It's takin me along time to make a decision, let me know what you think!

I'm 25, 6'3, 225 with about 15% BF. I want to bulk up to around 240-250 10% BF or so.
The only thing i'm not sure about is the test i want to use, I've used sust and had very good results, but lots of water. I didn't use an AI or anything though. Would sust, cyp or test E be the best? Going for a mature vascular(veins) look. I also havn't decided wether to mix masterone, equi or winni.

Test 500mg a week 1-12

Deca 600mgs a week 1-10

masterone/winni or equi

arimidex .5 a day throughout(worried about gyno had it before, and had surgery)

Hcg, nolva and clomid for pct. Also want to know how much hcg I can run during the cycle, was thinking 1000ius a week while on and then 5000ius a week when done for two weeks. Any help would be very useful for me to make a final decision.

[JuicyJuiceface]

and was going to do anavar or tbols at the end of the injectable for 4-5 weeks, to keep me anabolic and help with pct.

[johnny juice]

I thought after surgery gyno cant come back. I thought they remove the whole glan itself. Sorry for not being able to help you with your original question.

[JuicyJuiceface]

The doc told me it can still come back, maybe not as easy but he said their is a chance.

[JuicyJuiceface]

Belive me, its better to be safe then sorry, the arimidex is also helpful with the water retention

[johnny juice]

That sucks, Well good luck

[Stock]

I have always used more test in my cycles than deca. Other than that I would use a kickstart like dbol and then use either mast or winny at the end as a finisher. IMO, skip the eq.

[JuicyJuiceface]

Thank you, what do you think about useing t-bols at the end of my injectables for 4 weeks or so, then pct

[JuicyJuiceface]

I'v used winny and got ripped from it, do you think I should stick to it, or change to masterone, for a less toxic effect, since i was thinking of doing the t-bols which are also a 17aa.

[JuicyJuiceface]

advice would be helpful

[JuicyJuiceface]

does anyone have any advice?

[RA]

If your going for vascular stick with winny. Why are you worried about the toxicity? You have elevated liver values?

I'v used winny and got ripped from it, do you think I should stick to it, or change to masterone, for a less toxic effect, since i was thinking of doing the t-bols which are also a 17aa.

[JuicyJuiceface]

I don't have liver issues, but I want to keep it that way and didn't think it would be to good to use two 17aa drugs

[JuicyJuiceface]

because i want to add t-bols for 4 weeks after I'm done the injecables, to counteract against a catabolic state

[longhorn814]

the bigger problem with the use to 17aa IMO is how bad your cholesterol profile is while on them..not sure what or how you plan to cycle, other than test and deca..lay out the rest of what/how you plan to cycle so we can better help you...ive seen the mention of var, tbol, eq, winny, masteron..pick something so we can help

[JuicyJuiceface]

I've now gone with...

Test 500mgs per week 1-12

deca 400mgs per week 1-10

masterone 300mgs per week 6-12

t-bols 60mgs ed 12-16

.5 of arimidex during the cycle

pct hcg, nolva, clomid

What kind of test should i do, sust, test cyp or test E

[longhorn814]

Try this

1-12 500 mg/wk Test E
1-11 400 mg/wk Deca
8-14 300 mg/wk masteron
8-14 60 mg/day Tbol


If you bodyfat is as high as you say, I would drop the masteron though, its more of a hardening drug and most of its effects are best noticed with lower bodyfat

Start PCT 2 weeks after last shot of Test E

[JuicyJuiceface]

Thank you very much, I don't know my exact bf, since it hasnt been tested, but you can see my 4 top abs and I just guessed. Could you tell me why you like test E over cyp and sust? And if masterone is not a good choice for ripping up what would suggest since I will already be on a 17aa with t-bols, is winny going to add to much stress on the liv and kids, should i go with eq? I plan on dieting towards the end to get to around 7-8% or less.

[longhorn814]

Test E and Cyp are basically the same ester. I always use E..dont really care for sust..blend of 4 esters makes it harder to keep blood levels constant which can cause more side effects.

[Stock]

because i want to add t-bols for 4 weeks after I'm done the injecables, to counteract against a catabolic state

You can use short acting compounds to do the same like Mast or winny and drop the tbol. IMO, if you want to add the tbols at the end then do so, but if you do, use mast not winny or neither.

Test e or c, really doesnt matter either way for me but it might take 5-6 weeks to feel it, that is why I would suggest a dbol jumpstart wk 1-4 30mg ED. If you dont use a jumpstart, then use the sus, and it should kick in sooner. There are a lot of people on here that dont like Sus, or think that you have to inject it EOD or ED. I've used it at E3.5D and it worked fine for me, but I dont get a lot of sides w/ test.

[JuicyJuiceface]

Thank you for your help... I'm not in to much of a hurry, so kickstarting it with d-bols isn't really that necessary and I really don't want to do to many orals... What do you think would better at the end of the cycle, winny, masterone or tbols?

[JuicyJuiceface]

what is your pick?

[JuicyJuiceface]

By the way this is my fourth cycle

[JuicyJuiceface]

are the doses to low, or should it be fine, plus i've never done test E, but I've done deca twice.

[longhorn814]

doses seem fine to me..Ive found I can gain basically the same with a lower dose without the sides that seem to come with higher doses

[JuicyJuiceface]

nice, thanks! I haven't done steroids in almost 4 years, so I figure my recipters should be fresh and ready to go. I think my body does well with them because as I said its been almost four years and I have kept alot of size and strength still, I was never one to crash and burn after.

[JuicyJuiceface]

so I figure a light cycle like this should be fine, looking to gain about 25 lbs, not very hard for me.. Do you think If could handle the ed shots of prop, that it would be a better choice for the deca then test E?

[longhorn814]

why would you want to take prop w/ deca? You have to shot way more often with prop than test e..you can take test e and deca, put them in the same syringe and shoot twice a week and thats it! You should be able to put on 25lbs, but expect some of that to be fat and water..ultimately will depend on your diet

[JuicyJuiceface]

Really! the last time I did test was sust and I lost fat, got me pretty chiseled actually... And I ate like a horse, is Test E different in tha aspect? Says on the profile that it should make you lose fat. The water portion I am going to try and combat with arimidex and will have letro on hand if the arimidex ain't working.

[JuicyJuiceface]

Maybe I should throw in a little HGH, Then I'll be good in the fat department, because I don't want to have to watch my fat, if thats going to be the case

[longhorn814]

25 lbs of solid muscle in a 3 month time frame is not likely. Most people are lucky to put on 10 lbs of solid muscle a year. Im talking about permanent keepable gains. Diet and cardio dictate what type of gains you get from that. Steroids dont really burn fat, they can preserve or build muscle, but diet and cardio dictate fat loss too. Test is test, doesnt matter if its prop, enan, cyp, sust or whatever..the only difference is the ester. HGH needs to be run for 4-6 months to really benefit from it. Going back to your original post of wanting to gain 25 lbs and drop 5% bodyfat is not really likely. If you dont watch your diet and eat lots of fat, I guarantee you that you WILL put on some fat!!

[Stock]

25 lbs of solid muscle in a 3 month time frame is not likely. Most people are lucky to put on 10 lbs of solid muscle a year. Im talking about permanent keepable gains. Diet and cardio dictate what type of gains you get from that. Steroids dont really burn fat, they can preserve or build muscle, but diet and cardio dictate fat loss too. Test is test, doesnt matter if its prop, enan, cyp, sust or whatever..the only difference is the ester. HGH needs to be run for 4-6 months to really benefit from it. Going back to your original post of wanting to gain 25 lbs and drop 5% bodyfat is not really likely. If you dont watch your diet and eat lots of fat, I guarantee you that you WILL put on some fat!!

^^^Good Advice.... IMO, bulk or cut dont try to do both at the same time or you will get half-assed results. Even on a clean bulk, you will gain a little fat. It's no big deal, just get rid of it with diet and cardio after your bulk cycle is done. But to think you will gain 25lbs and not gain any fat is expecting too much.

[JuicyJuiceface]

I was going to bulk first, then cut down at the end, with winny or eq.. But don't you loose fat because of the increased absorption of cals and increased body heat, plus increased metabolism from the steriods.

[JuicyJuiceface]

Does any of the tests have higher raw test, then any of the others.

[Stock]

winny at the end will "dry" you up more than actually get you cut up. Cardio and diet is what gets you cut. winny or mast will help you keep your muscle and harden you up while dieting, not make you loose fat.

Test will come in different dosages, ie 250mg/ml, the ester is irrelevent regarding that to a point.

IMO, you are trying to do two completely different things on this cycle at the same time. You can not maximize muscle gains while cutting fat, it just doesnt work like that in 99.999% of the people out there. If you want to maximize your gains, strength and size, then you will have to take in the calories to do so. If you want to remain cut up, then you will have to accept minimal gains on muscle size/mass.

[longhorn814]

I was going to bulk first, then cut down at the end, with winny or eq.. But don't you loose fat because of the increased absorption of cals and increased body heat, plus increased metabolism from the steriods.

that doesnt really make any sense. You just have unrealistic goals for one cycle of steroids. Bulk up this cycle..do a good PCT to keep most of your gains, then go for a cutting cyle several months down the road. You lose body fat by consuming less calories than you burn daily..steroids will help preserve muscle while in a calorie deficient state, but they wont melt off much fat, maybe a little. As has been says, diet and training dictate the type of gains you get..steroids are just a small piece of the equation. You can cut up on deca or bulk on winny..all depends on diet

As far as your test question, test susupension is 100% raw test, the downside is you need to inject it twice a day. The next is test prop, cyp, enan, and sust. The difference is really negligible though..its only a few mgs difference between prop and enanthate.

[topnotch]

If you take 100mg of prop and 100mg of eth or cyp, then the prop actually has more actual test in it, but not a whole lot...you won't really notice the difference from that...like the other guy said, if your doing deca, then there is no reason to do everyday or eod shots for prop...stick w/ the long ester

[JuicyJuiceface]

Thank you all very much for your imput! Just a little note from personal experiance... the last time I did winny, I was eating alot and not very clean(I was young and didnt do my research) At about my 10th shot i started to become definded under my chest like i've never had, it was amazing, I got so ripped. But if you guys say winny doesn't get you ripped I don't know what it was(sure wasn't my diet and I never do enough cardio). Oh and by the way I had my bf tested and its 11 and a half%.. not 15, bad guess.

[JuicyJuiceface]

do you think GH will give me the extra weight and definition i'm looking for?

[longhorn814]

GH is not really a mass builder..helps with fat loss, body recomposition, and anti aging effects, but in terms of building muscle it doesnt do that, unless you want to start getting into high doses.

Winny is a good hardening/defining drug..11% bodyfat is good to start seeing some definition from the winny, but its not gonna melt off excess fat. Say for example youre a fat ass > 20% bf, winny will not miraculously melt off your fat and make you shredded

Like I said, your goals are unrealistic for one cycle of AAS. Bulk up for this cycle and then cut on your next one.