HCG Confusion

[pimpdawgin]

I originally posted this in the PCT sextion, but seeing how there is a bit of overlap and more people seem to check posts in this section, I reposted it here. Hope that's ok.

Alright, I've read all the HCG threads and papers I could get my hands on. There seem to be so many schools of thought on this.

Run it 1) All or most of the way the way through the cycle.
2) Run it only at the end of the cycle.
3) Run it after you've taken your last AAS dose.

Then, there's how often. Some say 1) Every day
2) Every 3-5 days

And finally dose. I've seen advice like 1) 500iu per dose
2) 5000iu per dose

As you can see, there are so many combinations. A lot of the thread I;ve seen here and elsewhere are written by knowledgeable people, but they can be so drasticallyl different, that it's REALLY confusing. Does anyone have any medical studies or something to clear all this up????
Thanks

[shortyepic]

i agree everyone has their own recommendations on this, not like standard nolva dosing

[paulzane]

I understand where you are coming from Pimp .... everyone seems to be doing it differently!!!

I am just starting PCT and will be using HCG for the first time. I have taken Proviron 2 x 25mg every day from the start and will take all the way through PCT. My first dose of HCG was 1500 iu 2 days after my last shot of test. Then 750 iu every 3 days after that. Nolva and Clomid start 14 days after the last shot for a month.

Good luck in what you choose to do!!!!

[Booz]

1stly mate what is your cycle?

[kfrost06]

yes, hcg is done differently by everyone and then there's me, I don't do it at all. I never use it as part of my pct, I fail to see how it helps the HPTA as a whole, it could I just don't see how though. So yet a another different opinion on hcg. GL

[Kratos]

yes, hcg is done differently by everyone and then there's me, I don't do it at all. I never use it as part of my pct, I fail to see how it helps the HPTA as a whole, it could I just don't see how though. So yet a another different opinion on hcg. GL

Exactly how I feel, I think it has no use for the most part and probably does more harm than good the way people are using it. Just never made this statment before, because if someone asks me to defend my position it will take too much typing.

[pimpdawgin]

yes, hcg is done differently by everyone and then there's me, I don't do it at all. I never use it as part of my pct, I fail to see how it helps the HPTA as a whole, it could I just don't see how though. So yet a another different opinion on hcg. GL

I haven't really made up my mind either way, but if HCG can prevent testicular atrophy by simulating LH, I can see how it might help recovery especially after a longer cycle. If I could recover without it, I would prefer that, but judging from my last blood test, my LH levels are on the lower limit of the "normal range", so maybe in my case HCG would be helpful.

[Serotonin]

I've only done one cycle so far and it was Test/Deca/Halo. I used HCG pretty soon after starting the cycle because I don't like testicular atrophy and it seems silly to me not to use it when I have it available. I've been off cycle for 2 weeks now and haven't lost a pound of weight either and I've been running HCG/Aromasin/Clomid.

As far as dosing it is based off of the individual. I started out doing 500iu 2x a week and that wasn't really doing it so I bumped it up to 1000iu 2x a week and my boys bounced right back to size. If you have it available and you're running a cycle thats sure to shut you down, then I'd run HCG. Why let things get totally shut down?

[pimpdawgin]

I've only done one cycle so far and it was Test/Deca/Halo. I used HCG pretty soon after starting the cycle because I don't like testicular atrophy and it seems silly to me not to use it when I have it available. I've been off cycle for 2 weeks now and haven't lost a pound of weight either and I've been running HCG/Aromasin/Clomid.

As far as dosing it is based off of the individual. I started out doing 500iu 2x a week and that wasn't really doing it so I bumped it up to 1000iu 2x a week and my boys bounced right back to size. If you have it available and you're running a cycle thats sure to shut you down, then I'd run HCG. Why let things get totally shut down?

That seems reasonable. Th only thing I have read that would disagree with your approach would be this:
Doesn;t HCG use (mimicking LH) for too long desensitize the testes to LH? In that case, wouldn't it be better to use the HCG for a slightly shorter time, say towards the end of the cycle, so that the desensitisation doesn;'t occur?

[Serotonin]

There are many different feedback loops within the endocrine system, its a very dynamic machine. Yes, too much HCG could desensitize the receptors on the testes but again, it would have to be a very severe amount. As with myself, my testes didn't respond very much to 500iu but double that and they did. That amount for any extended period of time will not cause the leydig cells to desensitize.

HCG and HMG have been used to correct hypogonadism and azoospermia in a few case studies and the dosages administered to the patients was about 5x-10x the amount I'm using.. and they did this for 3+ months.

The research on the effects of HCG and receptor down regulation is few and far between for sure, but personally I would not be too concerned with that at such small therapeutic doses.

[Venomous Nemisis]

I think PerfectBeast has a sticky on HCG, do a search.

[S431M7]

I originally posted this in the PCT sextion, but seeing how there is a bit of overlap and more people seem to check posts in this section, I reposted it here. Hope that's ok.

Alright, I've read all the HCG threads and papers I could get my hands on. There seem to be so many schools of thought on this.

Run it 1) All or most of the way the way through the cycle.
2) Run it only at the end of the cycle.
3) Run it after you've taken your last AAS dose.

Then, there's how often. Some say 1) Every day
2) Every 3-5 days

And finally dose. I've seen advice like 1) 500iu per dose
2) 5000iu per dose

As you can see, there are so many combinations. A lot of the thread I;ve seen here and elsewhere are written by knowledgeable people, but they can be so drasticallyl different, that it's REALLY confusing. Does anyone have any medical studies or something to clear all this up????
Thanks

I suggest reread the profile on hcg again. what cycle are u on already? is your libidio up or down?

[BigLittleTim]

Anthony Robts.' PCT has worked for me in the past. Very easy to follow and it dovetails well into the end of your cycle.

500 iu HCG e.d. for three weeks breaks down to TWO ampules of HCG.
TWO bottles of Aromasin and ONE of Novladex and you're good to go.

Keeps ordering simple, too.

-BigLittleTim

[pimpdawgin]

I suggest reread the profile on hcg again. what cycle are u on already? is your libidio up or down?

I did the read the profile and many others, which is why I am confused since there are so many takes on HCG use.

I am not on a cycle yet, but am planning on a Var or T-Bol cycle. I want to make sure I know exactly what PCT/HCG I will be doing before I start.

[J-41-sd]

If you do just one or the other then don't bother with hcg it would be overkill, like using a spear for a game of darts. I use it after long cycles and any cycle that contains an injectable 19 nor, maybe I am alone on this one but the only time I REALLY needed it was after tren, even at low doses it shut me down bad. good luck though.

[pimpdawgin]

If you do just one or the other then don't bother with hcg it would be overkill, like using a spear for a game of darts. I use it after long cycles and any cycle that contains an injectable 19 nor, maybe I am alone on this one but the only time I REALLY needed it was after tren, even at low doses it shut me down bad. good luck though.

That's a good point. But what if I decide to do both (T-Bol and the Var). Would that neccessitate the HCG?). I don't want to be shut down for a day longer than neccessary.

DO you think I should decide whether to use the HCG or not by visually inspecting the testes for any shrinkage while on the cycle? I know it's not a very accurate method, but what else can I do? I'll be on for 6-8 weeks, so not too long, but not exactly super short either.
Thoughts?

[jdavis2007]

500iu is a good dose. Anthony Roberts' HCG dosing protocol is effective. I definitely think every cycle should have it during the cycle (at least at the end).

[j.c.arg]

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, ~100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG.2 It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular degeneration occurs, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use.

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a weekly shot of 500iu hCG, throughout the entire cycle.

Extract of "Everything That’s Wrong With Your PCT" by Eric M. Potratz



(sorry if my english isn´t good)

[39+1]

How long is your cylce
if it for year then then when you some during if it s for a 8 weeks do it at the end. you just wanna keep you guys active. read the insert it has an emmediate effect 4 hours after becsuase you just LH andthen again later i cant remmber but i think 24 hr and then 72 hrs.

[neverfail]

I use 500IU 2X/wk from start of cycle. This keeps testies full and PCT is a breeze. I have tried it at the end but I found recovery to be more difficult.

Gook Luck.......................nf

[Serotonin]

I use 500IU 2X/wk from start of cycle. This keeps testies full and PCT is a breeze. I have tried it at the end but I found recovery to be more difficult.

Gook Luck.......................nf

[brite]

Personally I use 500IU every 4 or 5 days, and a 3 week PCT (Nolva 40/30/20, Clomid 100/50/50)

[Merc..]

Keep in mind when using nolva in conjunction with HCG its suppressive nature is blocked .

If you look at studies on pubmed you will see that desensitization "is not "caused PKC ...

Its more likely that's is caused by 17 OHP and its suppressive nature is "blocked by the nolva..

Thats why you hear peeps reporting back that Anthony Roberts protocol was very effictive for them ..


Merc.