Understanding why Testosterone is Testosterone

[thunderin]

There is a lot of confusion out there as to why testosterone propionate will cause less water retention and side effects than the longer estered versions (phenylpropionate, isocaproate, enanthate, cypionate and decanoate).

Case in point:

Subject A uses 500mg weekly of test dec and 400mg of deca

Subject B uses 200mg each day of test prop and 100mg of boldenone prop

Result:

Subject A's total level of active AAS will reach over 3000mg within 75 days.

Subject B's total level of active AAS will never go over 580mg at anytime during his cycle.

Conclusion:

The water retention and side effects associated with AAS propionates are much lower than those of AAS long esters due to the concentrations of the drugs in the body.

Please see the attachment.

Note: This is entirely my own work, and I ask that it not be reproduced unless citing Anabolic Review.

[Swifto]

Good point.

I've also wondered about this too.

Why do I have the feeling this is aimed at a certain persons article....?!

[PEWN]

what chart are you using to make that graph ?

[RA]

Yeah, cant read attatchment

[Merc..]

There is a lot of confusion out there as to why testosterone propionate will cause less water retention and side effects than the longer estered versions (phenylpropionate, isocaproate, enanthate, cypionate and decanoate).

Case in point:

Subject A uses 500mg weekly of test dec and 400mg of deca

Subject B uses 200mg each day of test prop and 100mg of boldenone prop

Result:

Subject A's total level of active AAS will reach over 3000mg within 75 days.

Subject B's total level of active AAS will never go over 580mg at anytime during his cycle.

Conclusion:

The water retention and side effects associated with AAS propionates are much lower than those of AAS long esters due to the concentrations of the drugs in the body.

Please see the attachment.

Note: This is entirely my own work, and I ask that it not be reproduced unless citing Anabolic Review.

Your overlooking the fact that different esters provide totally
different levels of hormone (like...NPP vs/ deca is about a 50%
greater amount of nandrolone, with equal mg shots), and the fact
that the mg amount you inject isn't the blood plasma concentration.

Merc.

[thunderin]

Yeah, cant read attatchment

Here is the 1st chart in Word

[thunderin]

And the 2nd chart in Word

[thunderin]

Your overlooking the fact that different esters provide totally
different levels of hormone (like...NPP vs/ deca is about a 50%
greater amount of nandrolone, with equal mg shots), and the fact
that the mg amount you inject isn't the blood plasma concentration.

Merc.

Even at a 50% reduction of available decanoate AAS 3000mg to 1500mg, you will still have more than 3 times the amount of drug in your body compared to the propionate ester with dosages according to those on the charts in this thread. That is considerable.

[fred9]

you are forgetting one thing..the estered aas isnt the active one..the one that hasnt an ester anymore is the active one which produces the water retention...substract the amount that is estered from the amount that is unestered..you will see the enan/deca has even less active roids due the weigth

[Merc..]

Also when you post , you might want to reffrence the author that wrote the article ..

I dont mean this thread but rather your thread in the EDU forum on esters..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=309685


Merc.

[NotSmall]

you are forgetting one thing..the estered aas isnt the active one..the one that hasnt an ester anymore is the active one which produces the water retention...substract the amount that is estered from the amount that is unestered..you will see the enan/deca has even less active roids due the weigth

Exactly - when you inject 250mg test enanthate it isn't all active immediately but only as the ester is cleaved off leaving the active test, at least that is my understanding...

[billybambam]

Man you guy's are educated!

[thunderin]

I dont mean this thread but rather your thread in the EDU forum on esters..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=309685

Merc.

Done. Please see the Note at the bottom of the first entry on that EDU thread.

[thunderin]

Exactly - when you inject 250mg test enanthate it isn't all active immediately but only as the ester is cleaved off leaving the active test, at least that is my understanding...

That is correct, but the cummulative build-up of AAS in the body is much higher with long esters than short esters due to the longer active life.

[taiboxa]

i wish jagdpanther was here.. that mofo had some neat studies on this shit that would definetly be a nice addition to the current topic at hand..

[S431M7]

who conducted this research, I mean what company or agency?

There is a lot of confusion out there as to why testosterone propionate will cause less water retention and side effects than the longer estered versions (phenylpropionate, isocaproate, enanthate, cypionate and decanoate).

Case in point:

Subject A uses 500mg weekly of test dec and 400mg of deca

Subject B uses 200mg each day of test prop and 100mg of boldenone prop

Result:

Subject A's total level of active AAS will reach over 3000mg within 75 days.

Subject B's total level of active AAS will never go over 580mg at anytime during his cycle.

Conclusion:

The water retention and side effects associated with AAS propionates are much lower than those of AAS long esters due to the concentrations of the drugs in the body.

Please see the attachment.

Note: This is entirely my own work, and I ask that it not be reproduced unless citing Anabolic Review.

[fred9]

That is correct, but the cummulative build-up of AAS in the body is much higher with long esters than short esters due to the longer active life.

yes but that isnt the active one thats causing the bloat...the active AAS in your body is a little bit lower when you inject long esters

[NotSmall]

That is correct, but the cummulative build-up of AAS in the body is much higher with long esters than short esters due to the longer active life.

Really? I would have thought that once the ester is cleaved off and you are left with testosterone then that esterless testosterone would have the same life in the body regardless of what ester was previously attached to it.
So yes, enanthate has a longer life span from point of injection to the cessation of activity in the body but only because it is "in the mail" for so long as it were, in an estered and inactive state.

[fred9]

the amount on the days 7.5, 22.5, 37.5..etc isnt right...it decreases exponentially...its not the amount inbetween day 1 and day 15..see below..

should look like this:
DAY AMOUNT
0 900
1 859,3574435
2 820,5502397
3 783,495507
4 748,1141065
5 714,3304734
6 682,0724549
7 651,2711568
7.5 636,3961031
8 621,860796
9 593,7785598
10 566,9644725
11 541,3612662
12 516,9142597
13 493,5712409
14 471,2823553
15 450

[Maldorf]

I thought I might add something about my experience with different esters. I can take 100 mg/day of trenbalone acetate no problem as I can tolerate the sides. When i tried taking 700mg/wk of trenbalone enanthate it ate me alive, the sides were so bad I had to cut back on dose in less than 3 weeks. I have to believe that longer half life esters do build up a greater amount of active hormone in the blood stream, and that is why the sides are stronger.
Taking 200 mg/day of test suspension was easy for me too, side effect wise. 1400 mg/wk of test enanthate gives me much more trouble.

[The Punnisher]

So how do Test blends effect this theory? The Testanon I am on right now is 100 mg's of Cyp, 110 mg's of Enth and 40 mg's of Prop. I take a 250 mg shot every 3 days for 12 weeks.

[ironaddict69]

I thought I might add something about my experience with different esters. I can take 100 mg/day of trenbalone acetate no problem as I can tolerate the sides. When i tried taking 700mg/wk of trenbalone enanthate it ate me alive, the sides were so bad I had to cut back on dose in less than 3 weeks. I have to believe that longer half life esters do build up a greater amount of active hormone in the blood stream, and that is why the sides are stronger.
Taking 200 mg/day of test suspension was easy for me too, side effect wise. 1400 mg/wk of test enanthate gives me much more trouble.

what were sides from too much test? I dont get any besides acne really.

[Maldorf]

what were sides from too much test? I dont get any besides acne really.

Bloating, high blood pressure mostly. I was taking arimidex and this still happened.

[Serotonin]

I have a question about Tren Ace/ Test Prop. If they're both dosed at 100mg/mL would it be better to shoot 50mg of each ED or 100mg of each EOD?

I'm speaking in terms of constant plasma levels. It would seem so for the prop ED is best but is the acetate ester as short lived? Also for pain, is 1mL of these compounds better ED or just stick to EOD? I always hear prop is a bastard but is it proportional to how much is injected or no?

[Merc..]

I have a question about Tren Ace/ Test Prop. If they're both dosed at 100mg/mL would it be better to shoot 50mg of each ED or 100mg of each EOD?

I'm speaking in terms of constant plasma levels. It would seem so for the prop ED is best but is the acetate ester as short lived? Also for pain, is 1mL of these compounds better ED or just stick to EOD? I always hear prop is a bastard but is it proportional to how much is injected or no?

Keep in mind that Tren has in effect on serotonergic amines and decrease serotonin ..

I have seen people that have bad emotional sides if they use tren EOD rather than ED..

Also

Prop is painful for me anyways ( at any amount ). I have to cut it with sterile oil and there is no pain..

Merc.

[thunderin]

Also

Prop is painful for me anyways ( at any amount ). I have to cut it with sterile oil and there is no pain..

Merc.

A lot of it depends on the test prop you have. I take 200mg/mL in my quad ed and can only barely notice that I have taken it the day after.