Low sperm count..

[frank12391]

Can anyone help with this? Mods & vets
My friend has had a sperm count and it was found to be considerably lower than normal. He has never cycled and he is 40 yo. His wife, 32yo is trying to conceive without success.

The G.Ps here in Sydney Australia are reluctant to refer him to a specialist for treatment as the health system here is tax payer funded. According to his G.P, his chances of success were minimal and he didn't fit the criteria. If he was to go private, the cost for him would be an arm & a leg with no guarantees.

SO.. they have turned for me for help. I am reluctant to ask the Physicians at work as they would probably respond with " get him to consult a specialist for treatment" or "it's unethical to give you advice without consulting the client" and I am paranoid about it as well.

I wonder if he could benefit from H.C.G?
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to go about a H.C.G regime for him?

[neverenuff21]

Absolutely. I was just discussing that with my doc as well. HCG is used all the time as a fertility drug for men and women.

As for the doses, you'll have to read up on that or find someone on here.

[soulstealer]

Can anyone help with this? Mods & vets
My friend has had a sperm count and it was found to be considerably lower than normal. He has never cycled and he is 40 yo. His wife, 32yo is trying to conceive without success.

The G.Ps here in Sydney Australia are reluctant to refer him to a specialist for treatment as the health system here is tax payer funded. According to his G.P, his chances of success were minimal and he didn't fit the criteria. If he was to go private, the cost for him would be an arm & a leg with no guarantees.

SO.. they have turned for me for help. I am reluctant to ask the Physicians at work as they would probably respond with " get him to consult a specialist for treatment" or "it's unethical to give you advice without consulting the client" and I am paranoid about it as well.

I wonder if he could benefit from H.C.G?
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to go about a H.C.G regime for him?

I would suggest running some nolvadex along with the HCG as to prevent gyno... but running HCG @ 1000IU's E4D should do the trick

[frank12391]

HCG @ 1000IU's E4D should do the trick

Thanks, but for how long?

[Serotonin]

Successful treatment of anabolic steroid–induced azoospermia with human chorionic gonadotropin and human menopausal gonadotropin

Menon, Dev Kumar1

1. Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University Malaya Medical Centre, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Objective

To document for the first time the successful treatment using human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and human menopausal gonadotropins (hMG) of anabolic steroid–induced azoospermia that was persistent despite 1 year of cessation from steroid use.
Design

Clinical case report.
Setting

Tertiary referral center for infertility.
Patient(s)

A married couple with primary subfertility secondary to azoospermia and male hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. The husband was a bodybuilder who admitted to have used the anabolic steroids testosterone cypionate, methandrostenolone, oxandrolone, testosterone propionate, oxymetholone, nandrolone decanoate, and methenolone enanthate.
Intervention(s)

Twice-weekly injections of 10,000 IU of hCG (Profasi; Serono) and daily injections of 75 IU of hMG (Humegon; Organon) for 3 months.
Main outcome measure(s)

Semen analyses, pregnancy.
Result(s)

Semen analyses returned to normal after 3 months of treatment. The couple conceived spontaneously 7 months later.
Conclusion(s)

Steroid-induced azoospermia that is persistent after cessation of steroid use can be treated successfully with hCG and hMG.

Keywords: Anabolic steroid; azoospermia; human chorionic gonadotropin; human menopausal gonadotropin
Cited References

1. Inigo, M.A.; Arrimadas, E.; Arroyo, D. “43 cycles of anabolic steroid treatment studied in athletesthe uses and secondary effects.” Rev Clin Esp. v. 2000 p. 133–138. 2000. [Find It]
2. Torres-Calleja, J.; Gonzalez-Unzaga, M.; DeCelis-Carrillo, R.; et al. “Effect of androgenic anabolic steroids on sperm quality and serum hormone levels in adult male bodybuilders.” Life Sci. v. 68 p. 1769–1774. 2001. [Find It]
3. Boyadjiev, N.P.; Georgieva, K.N.; Massaldjieva, R.J.; Gueorguiev, S.I. “Reversible hypogonadism and azoospermia as a result of anabolic-androgenic steroid use in a bodybuilder with personality disorder. A case report.” J Sports Med Phys Fitness. v. 40 p. 271–274. 2000. [Find It]
4. Gazvani, M.R.; Buckett, W.; Luckas, M.J.; et al. “Conservative management of azoospermia following steroid abuse.” Hum Reprod. v. 12 p. 1706–1708. 1997. [Find It]
5. Medras, M.; Tworowska, U. “Treatment strategies of withdrawal from long-term use of anabolic-androgenic steroids.” Pol Merkuriusz Lek. v. 11 p. 535–538. 2001. [Find It]
6. Gill, G.V. “Anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism treated with human chorionic gonadotropin.” Postgrad Med J. v. 74 p. 45–46. 1998. [Find It]
7. Martikainen, H.; Alen, M.; Rahkila, P.; Vihko, R. “Testicular responsiveness to human chorionic gonadotropin during transient hypogonadotropic hypogonadism induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids in power athletes.” J Steroid Biochem. v. 25 p. 109–112. 1986. [Find It]
8. Spiga, L.; Gorrini, G.; Ferraris, L.; et al. “Unilateral gynaecomastia induced by the use of anabolic steroids. A clinical case report.” Minerva Med. v. 83 p. 575–580. 1992. [Find It]
9. Rodriguez de Ledesma, J.M.; Cozar Olmo, J.M.; Nistal Martin, N.; et al. “Klinefelter syndrome with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism and absence of Leydig cells.” Arch Esp Urol. v. 47 p. 618–620. 1994. [Find It]



As you can see from this abstract, the dosages used in treating this stuff can go off the charts man. It would be hard to say what dosing he should try without the guidance of a doctor.

[neverenuff21]

10,000 iu injects at a time! Holy crap. I wouldnt be able to keep it down!

[neverenuff21]

My poor poor fiance.

[frank12391]

[I]Successful treatment of anabolic steroid–induced azoospermia with human chorionic gonadotropin

Clinical case report.
Setting
Twice-weekly injections of 10,000 IU of hCG

10,000iu's of hcg: might as well book in for gyno surgery now.

But back to the issue. This man has never used AAS.

[Serotonin]

It doesn't matter if he's used AAS or not, I was showing that as an example of dosing used to correct infertility in men. Your friend could be starting andropause early and thus have lower test levels, leading to low sperm count. There are just a big number of factors that can cause male infertility, and if the GP thought he wouldn't be helped by any therapy, then what exactly is the cause of his low sperm count?

I know this isn't what you want to hear but why risk injecting something, that is largely used in a research setting anyways, when it may not even help?

[frank12391]

It doesn't matter if he's used AAS or not, I was showing that as an example of dosing used to correct infertility in men. Your friend could be starting andropause early and thus have lower test levels, leading to low sperm count. There are just a big number of factors that can cause male infertility, and if the GP thought he wouldn't be helped by any therapy, then what exactly is the cause of his low sperm count?

I know this isn't what you want to hear but why risk injecting something, that is largely used in a research settings

The G.P didn't exactly say he couldn't be helped by the therapy, it's just that he was reluctant to refer him by telling white lies because of the costs to our health care system and to fit the criteria in our public system for therapy, it must be your first child. He already has 1 from a previous marriage. However, the G.P will refer him as a private client which he cannot afford.

Also, is what you're saying that the risks may out weigh the benefits if any?

[Kratos]

This thread is full of awful advise. The study posted by serotonin is not relevant to the condition your friend has. Do not assume hcg is the way to go.

[frank12391]

Do not assume hcg is the way to go.

somehow I feel like I'm back where I started....

Anyone???

[CYP400]

i have experience with this and let me tell you, you didnt give the real info that is needed for anyoen to give good advice, example:

what is his motility?

what is his morphology?

those 2 things can make or break you because your total sperm count per ml might be low,example: 1 million however if your motility is 70% that is great and if morpholy is 60% that is awsome with iui or ivf he should have success especially if her eggs are good (which at 32 years old should be).

the reason for this is that hcg,clomid or nolva do asolutely nothing or very little for those 2 very key points only vitamins and anit-oxidents do, so tell your buddy to stop smoking if he does and load up on vitamins and anti oxidents fo 90 days and take another test

[scotttiger54]

This thread is full of awful advise. The study posted by serotonin is not relevant to the condition your friend has. Do not assume hcg is the way to go.

thanks Kratos and CYP 400! CYP... great advise bro. this is exactly why i feel that all AAS users should consult a physician if there are any questions at all concerning anything the user DID NOT get an education for

[neverenuff21]

thanks Kratos and CYP 400! CYP... great advise bro. this is exactly why i feel that all AAS users should consult a physician if there are any questions at all concerning anything the user DID NOT get an education for

Hear, hear!

[frank12391]

Well, I'm still putting it out there

bump

[Nate_Dog]

I know this is old.. but anyway, for future searches.

No alcohol except red wine (Merlot), never more then 2 glasses/day.
No smoking.
Try to rid the body of any xenoestogens.
Don't eat or heat anything in plastic... dont drink from plastic water bottles.
Take natural stuff to reduce aromastase (yes there is stuff out there)
Start eating heaps of Zinc - if you are low in zinc you will be low in test. ZINC ZINC ZINC... I cannot stress this enough. And not shit stuff something good like a zinc chelate.
Get leaner.. more fat you have the more aromatase you will produce.

If he has low test - then according to Biosignature profiles the he should have high skinfold measurements on his triceps and pecs(androgen sites). Also high skinfold on quad, hammie (estrogen sites).

If that doesn't work.. go medical.. but cover the natural and lifestyle bases first.

[Buildingmuscle]

doctor told me to run 1000ius a day for 10 days straight after a regular cycle... so to get sperm count up not sure,, and doing this there wasnt a gyno issue for me..