I've seen sample cycles run winny the last part of the cylce and at the beginning, thoretically in a test deca and dbol when would you start the winny or is that overkill. The one thing in common is the duration of 7 weeks. Just curious. Thanks
Junior Member
I've seen sample cycles run winny the last part of the cylce and at the beginning, thoretically in a test deca and dbol when would you start the winny or is that overkill. The one thing in common is the duration of 7 weeks. Just curious. Thanks
Last edited by FASTBOATS25; 10-03-2007 at 06:25 PM.
Steroidpedia
How old are and what are your stats??
Merc.
Junior Member
Well that isnt my cylce, im 24 6' 3" 210 i plan on starting my first cycle but right now its 500mg test e 10 weeks. 400mg deca 10 weeks and enough nolva to run 20mg throughout and clomid for 3 weeks after.
Member
Its not necessarily overkill, but you do have two 17a's in there which could reak havoc on the liver. You'll have to run lower doses IMO of both. Or make sure you give yourself plenty of time in between.
I personally wouldnt run the two in the same cycle. Decide what your goals are for that cycle, and choose accordingly. Better safe than sorry, isnt that the rule?
Associate Member
^^liver toxicity is over rated, that being said, stanozol is usually used during a cut. The cycle u stated looks more like bulking cycle, so why use winny
Junior Member
ya, from the research ive done it seems like they would be used in different cycles
Member
While I do agree, I had my liver values ran 6 weeks post winny before. Still off. So, for me, Im taking all necessary precautions for health.Originally Posted by Juicy J
Your right though. I agree. Winny for cut at the end. Dbol for mass at the beginning.
Knowing the proper usages for each one will allow you to maximize the benefits from each.
Steroidpedia
theoretically
You could use winny for the first 5-6 wks with that cycle..
Some like to use a DHT based compound at the end of a cycle . It helps with SHGB and increases free test ( Masteron is a better choice)..
For a first cycle you would not need to use all of those compounds.. If you have some experience and have done the proper research you could look into using all those compounds..
Start the winny at the beginning at 50mg ED for 5-6 wks is how one could theoretically run it.. So for someone that has experience
wk 1-14 Test 400-500 mg
wk 1-4 dbol 40 -50 mg
wk 1-12 deca 400 mg
wk 1-6 winny 50 mg ED inject .. ( Or for the last 6 wks)
For a first cycle you can just use test and train and eat proper and get amazing results..
Merc.
Last edited by Merc..; 10-03-2007 at 06:47 PM.
Member
Did I mention...
...oh how I do love them both ever so much?
Member
Guess I agre with Merc.
Winny just works beautifully for me at the end of a cycle. Its like it jumpstarts the gains all over again and I fall in love all over again.
Steroidpedia
You might not want to use nolva with deca.. Nolva increases PgR and can increase your chances of getting gyno . I will say its not a problem for everyone but everybody that I know has had problems using them together.. You could use an AI instead of nolva ..
Also you might want to consider using the test 2wks longer than the deca..
And
Clomid only is not a good pct..
Merc.
Member
Wow. you learn something new everyday. Now that you said that I had an issue with that. But didnt know the cause.
Steroidpedia
Oh there are many ways to add it in ..
I was just giving one possible way !!
Merc.
Steroidpedia
Yea it increases PgR and gives more for the decas metoblites to bind to ..
Merc.
Junior Member
most the reading ive done have nolva and clomid as pct
Member
Wow. Ive got some reading to do. Thats why I love this game. Its never over...
Junior Member
agreed
Anabolic Member
Couldn't agree more with that statement!
Steroidpedia
Here is part of one study I posted recently that shows nolva increases PgR..
The PgR gene is an estrogen-regulated gene (34) , so drugs with estrogenic activity will increase its expression. Accordingly, tamoxifen has been shown to increase PgR levels (35) , whereas initial work on primary breast tumors found that a short-acting formulation of ICI 182,780 reduced PgR levels (30) , suggesting that it is devoid of estrogen-agonist activity and may have a different mechanism of action to that of tamoxifen. Additional evidence that ICI 182,780 and tamoxifen have different underlying modes of action comes from studies showing that tamoxifen-resistant tumors remain sensitive to ICI 182,780 treatment in vitro (18 , 19) , in vivo (36 , 37) , and in the clinic (38, 39, 40)
Steroidpedia
I like Anthony Roberts PCT ..
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758
Merc.
Member
Nice. Thanks G.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...indexed=google
Associate Member
^^^listen to Merc, seriously, listen
Steroidpedia
Estrogen receptor (ER) and progesterone receptor (PgR), by ligand-binding assay compared with ER, PgR and pS2, by immuno-histochemistry in predicting response to tamoxifen in metastatic breast cancer: a Southwest Oncology Group Study.Elledge RM, Green S, Pugh R, Allred DC, Clark GM, Hill J, Ravdin P, Martino S, Osborne CK.
Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, TX, USA. [email protected]
Results of estrogen receptor (ER) and progesterone receptor (PgR) ligand-binding assays (LBAs) are strongly correlated with ER and PgR by immuno-histochemistry (IHC). To investigate whether ER and PgR by IHC are also strongly correlated with tamoxifen response, time to treatment failure (TTF) and overall survival (OS), the results of the 2 methods were directly compared in 205 patients with ER(+) metastatic breast cancer treated with daily tamoxifen (Southwest Oncology Group protocol 8228) with 9 years median follow-up. pS2, another estrogen-regulated molecule, was also analyzed. Tumors were scored for IHC from 0 to 5, according to the proportion of positively stained cells. These IHC scores for both ER and PgR were significantly associated with LBA levels (p < 0.001). There was a significant direct relationship between higher IHC ER, PgR and pS2 and increasing response to tamoxifen. TTF and OS were also significantly longer for patients with higher ER or PgR, but not pS2, IHC scores. Low, intermediate and high ER or PgR categories showed similar differences in response rates whether defined by LBA or IHC. In logistic regression models which included ER, PgR and pS2 by IHC; ER and PgR by LBA; and menopausal status, only ER (IHC) and pS2 (IHC) retained significance for predicting tamoxifen response (p = 0. 02 and p = 0.005, respectively), along with menopausal status (for PgR by IHC, p = 0.09). Increasing ER and PgR by IHC, as by LBA, are thus significantly associated with a progressively better response and longer survival in ER(+) metastatic breast cancer. pS2 is also predictive in this setting. Copyright 2000 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
PMID: 10754487 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Junior Member
i read anthonys, let me ask u this. if i have nolva on hand, but not enough to take throughout and for pct can i save it for pct? and worst comes to worst start taking it as necessary through the cycle?
Steroidpedia
If you going to be using Deca you might not want to use nolva ( like I said in this thread...)
I would look into using an AI like adex for while your on cycle and save your nolva ....
Merc.
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