first cycle...

[snoogans]

well im gonna start my first cycle soon and was wondering what some of your thoughts were:

Test E- 400mg EW
Deca - 200-300mg EW
Clomid and Nolvadex for pct, ive heard of AI's but wasn't sure if i should use for this cycle and if so wich one??

thanks in advance....

[Kale]

At just 18, not a good idea dude. Have a read of this

"What is the Right Age to Start Using Steroids ?

By: Brandon Walsh
This article is being published in hopes of reaching some of the younger people, involved in our great sport of body building, reach their goals without making the great mistake of using steroids too early in their long lives. The problem with this is that most young bodybuilders (BBs) cannot grasp the concept of the future and how long the road ahead really is even with the use of steroids. How do you convince a 14 year old that it will take years before he can look like the Pro BB's in the magazines, and that he may never look like that even with all the drugs available in the world. Well that is what I hope to accomplish within this article.

At what age should you be, before you consider using steroids? This question is not as easily answered as you may think it is. You cannot randomly just pick an age and say that this is the point at which you can now start to consider using steroids.

Between the ages of 12 and 26 a male's hormone levels are on a steady rise until the age of 26. This is when these levels slowly start to decline until they are almost nonexistent by the ripe old age of 40.

When puberty starts in males at the age of 12 there is a huge flux in hormonal patterns in the body, which cause the growth of male characteristics, (deepening of the voice, growth of body hair, growth in height, etc.). These hormone levels increase by themselves so much that they can be compared to that of a mild steroid cycle. Therefore trying to add to what the body is doing on its own by adding in exogenous (outside) Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) is very counter productive.

Whenever any extra amount of AAS is added to the body, the body recognizes this extra level through a feedback loop in the human body known as the Hypothalamus. Once the Hypothalamus recognizes the increase in hormones which happens usually between 14 and 21 days, the body will shut off its own production of hormones until these levels decrease, along with increasing hormones to decrease these extra levels in the body (cortisone, estrogen). Cortisone and Estrogen are 2 hormones in the body that BBs do not need any extra. The easiest way to try to explain this without getting to complicated, is that the more AAS you put in your body, the more your body will try to lower those levels. When this happens BBs get all the side effects that are normally associated with AAS use, gynecomastia (growth of fatty tissue underneath the breasts in males), hair loss, kidney damage, liver damage, and high blood pressure, just to name a few).

Before you consider the use of AAS you should have already reached your genetic potential. What is your genetic potential? To figure this out you should first look at the weight, height and build of other members in your family. Is this exact, no, but it is somewhere to start. If every male on both sides of your family is approximately 5'7" and weighs between 150lbs and 170lbs and they are all bald by the age of 25, then it would be a good guess that you will also fall somewhere in those ranges by the time you stop growing. Now with working out and eating correctly for 4 years lets say, you would be able to put on 15 or more pounds of muscle tissue (that would mean you now weigh 165-185 lbs.). This is what your genetic potential would be. Now if you started to use steroids at that point, 165-185 lbs you may be able to put on another 15-20 lbs (180-200lbs). If you had started using when you were 125 lbs., and gained 25lbs through the use of steroids, you would still be well short of what you could have gotten naturally (150lbs as compared to 180-200lbs), and now it will be much harder to try to gain another 30-40lbs.

So for a starting point lets say that you need to be at least 18 years of age before you consider using steroids. Now that we have a starting point, lets look at a few other factors that should be considered. Steroids DO NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM makes up for a good diet and workout program. Most people who use AAS feel that this is the time where they can be a little more relaxed in their workouts and diet. Actually this is when they should be even more strict. So before you can think of using at the age of 18, you will need 3 more solid years of good training and eating habits. Minor changes in diet and workouts can result in great gains in mass and muscle as well as strength.

No matter how much assistance you get from AAS, without proper nutrition and workouts you will be lucky to have any gains at all, let alone keep them after the cycle is over. The goal of using any substance, legal or not should be that after you stop using it you don't loose all of that which you have fought to get. What would be the point of spending all that money (steroids are not free) to gain that 30lbs when you will loose it after the cycle is over anyway?

So the better question to ask instead of when can I take steroids, should be, what can I do to get all that I can out of my body without needing steroids?. In order to calculate my progress, I need to talk with my family and doctors, before I try to make a choice like that.

We will start with the age range of 14-16; this is when your hormones are raging. Your body is in full swing of making the best steroids that you can ever get, and it does all this without you even needing to do a single thing. At this point you should start with a solid exercise plan and a basic supplement plan in addition to the regular food that you need to be eating on a regular basis.

For workouts focus on the basic compound movements (Bench Press, Squats, Deadlifts, Barbell Curls, etc.) Working out 4 days a week with at least 8 hours of sleep a night is a great start. Add to that the extra protein that you should be taking and you will definitely start seeing a difference in your body. As for supplements, at this point all I would suggest is a good Meal Replacement Shake, multi-vitamin and creatine. Any shake will work, just add 2 shakes a day to the 3 solid meals that you should already be eating. Creatine has more benefits then I could start to explain in this article, but what I can say is that it will help your strength, muscle, speed, and recovery without any negative side effects.

By the age of 16-18 you will have had most of your growth spurts and you will be ready to change a few more things in your overall plan. You workouts can become a little more specialized as you start using different exercises. As for your nutrition program, all that I would think of adding now would be something such as extra glutamine before bed and maybe a ZMA supplement. You still don?t want to take anything that would alter what your body is doing on its own, so using ZMA and glutamine is just what you need.

Somewhere between 18 and 21 you should be just about done growing, so what should you do differently now? Add more protein! You should be getting at the very least, your body weight in grams of protein per day! And that?s at the very least! By now you will have been working out consistently for quite a while and should know your body very well. What will work and what won?t work should be old news. There isn?t really anything new to add to what is already a great program, other than Tribulus and maybe a pre-workout supplement such as Ultimate Orange. After this point, you can start to consider the use of steroids. What about them? Are they as terrible as everyone seems to think they are? As long as they are used correctly, I don?t think so. When considering their use, I feel that orals should be used as late as possible. These are most harmful on the body and therefore should not be used for a very long time.

Another thing to consider, other than the side effects I have already spoken of, is your sex drive. Some AAS will make your sex drive almost nonexistent and will have a big effect on your sperm count. These drugs in particular should try to be avoided. That leaves mild anabolics. Although they are the safest to use, they are expensive, illegal, and require the use of a needle. Which most first time users do not want to use.

I told you that this is not something that should be passed off very easily; you shouldn?t have to make the mistakes that most of us make by using steroids to early in your life. If used correctly, I think they are fine, but look at what it takes in order to use them correctly. Have you been working out for 5 years straight without more the 2 weeks off every 6 weeks? Do you eat every 2-3 hours, 6 times a day without missing a meal? Do you get 8 hours of sleep every night? This is something that can have a huge effect on your body for the rest of your life, so don?t make that choice in 10 minutes. Good luck and keep growing.

Designer Labs President / CEO *

[Roidal]

Kale is right, 18 is just too soon.

[snoogans]

I've read this bro, i saw you post it on another thread... and i know it's not the smartest thing in the world but i've set my mind for it... I know the responsability and dangers that come with steroids but i just want to do it the safest way possible... good article by the way...

[mkcay7979]

KALE,,,great article

[millionairemurph]

sorry bro im not going to help you out either. You arent even done growning yet most likely. When i was you age i was 160 at 6'1 or so and got to 6'3 and 210 with out the use of aas. You have your whole life ahead. I know this seems like a huge deal to you now, and that you have to do it. But you dont. It wont hurt anything to wait a few years. The juice isnt going anywhere. You could easily gain another 20lbs without aas, - for "free"
Dont do it bro

[snoogans]

im not starting like 2morrow lol im waiting a couple months so i can practice my diet a little more but im sorry no disrespect to anyone, i know you guys are trying to give advice but im not waiting til 24, 25 like some of you say i understand that im not fully grown but im not growing much more, everyone in my family is short so i dont care about the hieght... all im asking is for a little advice on the cycle weather you approve of it or not... the least some of you can do is help me do it right, telling me you're not gonna help isn't gonna stop me, so why not just help out?

[nowdenlid]

well im gonna start my first cycle soon and was wondering what some of your thoughts were:

Test E- 400mg EW
Deca - 200-300mg EW
Clomid and Nolvadex for pct, ive heard of AI's but wasn't sure if i should use for this cycle and if so wich one??

thanks in advance....

if you are dead set on doing a cycle then

test e 500mgs ew for 12 weeks

nolva/clomid pct.

you are makeing a mistake by doing a cycle at this age

[snoogans]

ok but i wanna leave the deca cuz i dont wanna run the risk of thinning hair or tendonitis, even if it's at a low dose..... and would i need something like arimidex .5mg eod while on cycle? i've been told to leave clomid out and use nolva and hcg for pct??

[AandF6969]

You should probably fix your diet before a cycle.

[snoogans]

I know that's why im correcting it and practicing it for a couple months before i start but i just wanted opinions because ths is the cycle im going to run...

[10nispro]

You want to run the deca to help with loss of hair and for tendinitis? Do you have any of these problems now?

[snoogans]

nope, but i still don't want the risk, and i wanna get bigger lol

[Kratos]

wtf is deca going to do for your hair and tendinitis except make worse?

[snoogans]

well deca is known to protect hair follicles to reduce hair loss, and last time u checked deca is good for tendons, ligaments and joints....

[Kratos]

protect hair follicles how? Deca is good for joints, but tendonitis is another story.

[Amorphic]

deca may be milder on androgenic sides but you're still running test and you will still encounter greasy skin, possible acne and hairloss if you are predisposed to it. if anything your tendonitis will get worse from the additional stress the new muscle will put on them.

be sensible man. dont cycle.

[snoogans]

a member on another forum brought it up that he read it in an article, that protects them from androgens and he said that he noticed a difference from when he was on Test alone and Test and Deca , if i could get the article i would but he didn't post it...

[Amorphic]

it wont protect them from androgens. deca and test are anabolic /androgenic steroids . deca is known to be mild on sides but it certainly isnt mild on your hpta and it certainly wont stop hair loss if you are predisposed to it

[Kratos]

a member on a nother forum brought it up that he rad it in an article, that protects them from androgens and he said that he noticed a difference from when he was on Test alone and Test and Deca, if i could get the article i would but he didn't post it...

Guess what...deca is an androgen in itself, how does more poision equal a cure?

[snoogans]

Well that's what i've heard, thanks for the correction though i just learned something...

[Amorphic]

Well that's what i've heard, thanks for the correction though i just learned something...

now that you've learned something you can continue the trend by taking everyone elses advice, holding off steroid use and reading about proper diet. when the time comes, you can cycle, just for your own health and training, do it natty first!

[snoogans]

im trying bro, i still got a couple months alot can change... but when you guys say do it natural to the max then AAS i understand completely but the thing is i don't wanna be 5'7" 230lbs of hardcore freak muscle i just wanna be a good 185, 195 at the most, i don't wanna be a freak lol

[Amorphic]

i'm 5'10 and i started 10 months ago at 152 pounds. presently i am 202 and i have not touched gear. i honestly think if you try to bulk hard naturally you might come close to your goal

[snoogans]

those are some awesome gains, that's why im gonna see how these next couple months go to make up my mind... about 2 1/2 months ago i started dieting and working out again and i went from 135 to 148 now so im kinda proud of that, i need alot more work but we'll see....

[Amorphic]

good idea. good luck to you

[snoogans]

thanx man, i appreciate the advice...

[AandF6969]

im trying bro, i still got a couple months alot can change... but when you guys say do it natural to the max then AAS i understand completely but the thing is i don't wanna be 5'7" 230lbs of hardcore freak muscle i just wanna be a good 185, 195 at the most, i don't wanna be a freak lol

I wouldn't worry about that too much dude.. you're not going to wake up one day as Mr. Olympia

[salmanq]

Hi, this post is very informative; however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,

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[hulk1o1]

dude... start it when ur older