Estrogen Will It Effect My Gains

[m-man]

thanks Merc, it complete my recent post about this question

what do you think about anthony robert's pct?

[Brent_G]

What Ai do you like best ??




Merc.

Id have to say armidex or letro.

Armidex can be expensive.

Letro is really strong so you have to be careful on using it so you dont use to much'

Id say e3d would suffice.

But like i stated before.. i try not to use anything if i dont have to. Usually only in the beginning of the cycle while my levels are balancing out.

[Merc..]

thanks Merc, it complete my recent post about this question

what do you think about anthony robert's pct?

I think it works very good.. The best IMO !!!!

I have used it in the past and really like it.. There is a ton of people here that use his protocol and like it.. If you like you can do a search on the board to get some feedback..


Merc.

[Merc..]

Id have to say armidex or letro.

Armidex can be expensive.

Letro is really strong so you have to be careful on using it so you dont use to much'

Id say e3d would suffice.

But like i stated before.. i try not to use anything if i dont have to. Usually only in the beginning of the cycle while my levels are balancing out.

Right on ..



Merc.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

its an interesting subject beacause when you look at the numbers.....

ok an hrt dose of testosterone is 100mg a week. A newbe first cycle is generally 250-500mg/wk

Using 500mg as an example....this would achieve a test level of not quite 5 fold considering ester weight, so lets say its about 4 fold increase ok? So lets assume estrogen is about 4 times normal as well right? Well, on adex studies it shows that you achieve about a 50% decrease in estrogen after a week of 1mg or 8 weeks of .25mg. Well, 50% of 4 times the normal is still TWICE the normal, right? So this is why i think were all comfortable in telling a bro to take anti-es as a precaution, because when you look at the numbers, there should be PLENTY of EXTRA estrogen to have anabolic effect.
But the numbers arent everything apparently. Theres obviously something going on here. Sometimes I wish they'd invent a synthetic estrogen that had no affinity to breast tissue but high affinity to muscle tissue, that way we could use massive amount of test with letro and still use this "super estrogen" with it. Then i wouldnt have to worry about any of this!

[mr newbreed]

ive tried to buy some letro but nobody i know seems to have heard it,a friend of mine has got a ugl and he has never heard of it..he also said taking nolva is fine while using tren+test prop,he said something about progesterone(not sure of the spelling)..i dont know what that is and am being passed from pillar to post..is there anything other than letro or aromasin i can be using as i do not want to get gyno..also is there any chance i wont get gyno running these on a 175ml in total eod.please can somebody help me with this.thanks

[Merc..]

ive tried to buy some letro but nobody i know seems to have heard it,a friend of mine has got a ugl and he has never heard of it..he also said taking nolva is fine while using tren+test prop,he said something about progesterone(not sure of the spelling)..i dont know what that is and am being passed from pillar to post..is there anything other than letro or aromasin i can be using as i do not want to get gyno..also is there any chance i wont get gyno running these on a 175ml in total eod.please can somebody help me with this.thanks

Like i said before ..

Nolva increses PgR and can possibly increase your chances of getting gyno .. Increasing PgR when using a 19 nor (Tren ) is not a good idea IMO .. It gives more for the metabolites to bind thus increasing your chances of getting gyno.. I will say some people dont have a problem with using nolva and a 19 nor but most I know have had problems in doing so..

Letro can lower PgR and I think is good to use with tren ( alot of people like adex also )..



Merc.

[mr newbreed]

thankyou,il try to get some adex,since starting this cycle ive been getting hot flushes and bad headaches have you heard of anything like this before.ive nevor used test prop or tren before so i dont know what to expect

[Dog-Slime]

thankyou,il try to get some adex,since starting this cycle ive been getting hot flushes and bad headaches have you heard of anything like this before.ive nevor used test prop or tren before so i dont know what to expect

Check your blood pressure bro.

[mr newbreed]

i will go have it checked out,thanks...is that a common problem with the tren,if it is increasing my blood pressure have you any advice

[sphincter]

I am SOO glad I read this.. I have been using Caber and anastrazole on my test/tren cycle and though I'm getting great gains, I'd expected more so Ithink I'll cut out the caber/ldex and see what happens. I don't feel anything wrong in my nipples but IF anything startes, I've got plenty on hand to combat it...

[mr newbreed]

I am SOO glad I read this.. I have been using Caber and anastrazole on my test/tren cycle and though I'm getting great gains, I'd expected more so Ithink I'll cut out the caber/ldex and see what happens. I don't feel anything wrong in my nipples but IF anything startes, I've got plenty on hand to combat it...

so will you be leaving the AI compleatly if you dont get any signs of gyno and just running the test/tren ?

[Dog-Slime]

I am SOO glad I read this.. I have been using Caber and anastrazole on my test/tren cycle and though I'm getting great gains, I'd expected more so Ithink I'll cut out the caber/ldex and see what happens. I don't feel anything wrong in my nipples but IF anything startes, I've got plenty on hand to combat it...

I would still run the caber in that situation. Dont think it would hurt gains and would help prevent gyno still.

[ironaddict69]

its an interesting subject beacause when you look at the numbers.....

ok an hrt dose of testosterone is 100mg a week. A newbe first cycle is generally 250-500mg/wk

Using 500mg as an example....this would achieve a test level of not quite 5 fold considering ester weight, so lets say its about 4 fold increase ok? So lets assume estrogen is about 4 times normal as well right? Well, on adex studies it shows that you achieve about a 50% decrease in estrogen after a week of 1mg or 8 weeks of .25mg. Well, 50% of 4 times the normal is still TWICE the normal, right? So this is why i think were all comfortable in telling a bro to take anti-es as a precaution, because when you look at the numbers, there should be PLENTY of EXTRA estrogen to have anabolic effect.
But the numbers arent everything apparently. Theres obviously something going on here. Sometimes I wish they'd invent a synthetic estrogen that had no affinity to breast tissue but high affinity to muscle tissue, that way we could use massive amount of test with letro and still use this "super estrogen" with it. Then i wouldnt have to worry about any of this!

holy Sh1t. I was thinking the EXACT same thing the other day. Your talking to someone who loves abundant estrogen in their body, i love the gains it gives, and the strength/extra glycogen in my muscles.

[mr newbreed]

is caber its full name,just so i know what to search for

[Dog-Slime]

Cabergoline

[Gear]

Very helpful thread Merc, thank you very much . This should be kept at the top.

Bump!

-Gear

[mr newbreed]

Cabergoline

why would a sex aid drug be worth running ?

[Merc..]

why would a sex aid drug be worth running ?

It reduces prolactin..



Merc.

[Merc..]

Very helpful thread Merc, thank you very much . This should be kept at the top.

Bump!

-Gear

Merc.

[J*U*icEd]

great work merc.... good read for those who wana get the most out of their cycle.... bump to the top!....

[Merc..]

great work merc.... good read for those who wana get the most out of their cycle.... bump to the top!....

Thanks Juiced ....


Merc.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

screw caber, use bromo....didnt u guys see the thread on caber and the heart valve?

[dece870717]

screw caber, use bromo....didnt u guys see the thread on caber and the heart valve?

I believe that heart valve problem happened with much higher doses and longer duration than what a roid user would use to lower prolactin so I don't think its much of an issue.

[thai007]

Very good post merc...you have just helped my cycle big time....

[Merc..]

Very good post merc...you have just helped my cycle big time....

Keep us posted on your cycle results ...


Merc.

[Seattle Junk]

Merc - Please clear me up. Would you recommend a person that's never shown signs of gyno to use adex, letro or nolva to combat excessive bloating?

Let's say you want to stay dry as possible so you take .50 or .25 adex ed. Let's say the cycle is 500mgs test ew, 40mg dbol jump and 600mgs EQ ew. You mention that AIs (most) lower igf-1 levels. So if you are to supp in lr3 igf-1 at mid cycle would that help maximize gains? But then again I understand max gains have a lot to do with excess water via estrogen giving the muscles a "perfect" state for growth.

[Wavelover]

I heard that proviron is an anti-estrogen too. Can I use it during cycle to prevent gyno????

Thanks

[PEWN]

bump///

[Merc..]

Merc - Please clear me up. Would you recommend a person that's never shown signs of gyno to use adex, letro or nolva to combat excessive bloating?

Let's say you want to stay dry as possible so you take .50 or .25 adex ed. Let's say the cycle is 500mgs test ew, 40mg dbol jump and 600mgs EQ ew. You mention that AIs (most) lower igf-1 levels. So if you are to supp in lr3 igf-1 at mid cycle would that help maximize gains? But then again I understand max gains have a lot to do with excess water via estrogen giving the muscles a "perfect" state for growth.

I think too many people use a AI when they dont need it ... If someone is not competing then there might be better ways to control bloat.. Diet plays a big part in water retention .. You could also possibly look into using some sorta otc diuretic to help get rid of bloat ...

Estrogen is anabolic so you dont want to try and kill it , but rather keep it in check.. Using IGF could help , but if you lower estrogen too low it can reduce your gains..

[Merc..]

I heard that proviron is an anti-estrogen too. Can I use it during cycle to prevent gyno????

Thanks

There are alot of people that like using proviron .. Here is the profile on it .... Let me know if you have any other questions ...


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199857




Merc.

[reconforce4]

interesting, but i think nolva is always good in blockin estrogen not really strong enough so that it is counterproductive, but ur rite, sometimes you have to sacrifice the way you look now with the way you will look later

[Ronnie Rowland]

Merc, I just wanted to nice thread!!!

My endocrinologist explained to me that having high prolactin levels can cause some weight gain of the wrong kind, sluggishness, loss of sex drive and lower testosterone levels. He feels Cabergoline is a good choice for combatting these issues. Unfortunately, nausea is quite common with this drug.

[Merc..]

Merc, I just wanted to nice thread!!!

My endocrinologist explained to me that having high prolactin levels can cause some weight gain of the wrong kind, sluggishness, loss of sex drive and lower testosterone levels. He feels Cabergoline is a good choice for combatting these issues. Unfortunately, nausea is quite common with this drug.

Yea , Caber does work well ... Keep in mind steroids lower t-3 which in turn increase prolactin ... ( and can cause low sex drive )....



Merc.

[bpm1]

ok merc i havent read all the responses but was thinking im deff going to leave out an ai of the next go round.now generally speaking wouldnt a SERM be ideal while on cycle for the gyno prone as it has no effect on estro levels?theoretically this sounds good. i too was less than satisfied with my 2nd cycle results, i ran .5mg a-dex ed with it.my first cycle i had huge weight gain until i started a-dex about 6wks in and guess what, i never gained another pound on that one either.i have found that my nips get puffy and a little sore while on even with the a-dex so im gonna go for it without the AI and was considering running nolva if my sides got worse than mentioned.anyway wat say you?

[passthetest]

funny i started yesterday and now that i read this my arimidex will go back in the safe

[Merc..]

ok merc i havent read all the responses but was thinking im deff going to leave out an ai of the next go round.now generally speaking wouldnt a SERM be ideal while on cycle for the gyno prone as it has no effect on estro levels?theoretically this sounds good. i too was less than satisfied with my 2nd cycle results, i ran .5mg a-dex ed with it.my first cycle i had huge weight gain until i started a-dex about 6wks in and guess what, i never gained another pound on that one either.i have found that my nips get puffy and a little sore while on even with the a-dex so im gonna go for it without the AI and was considering running nolva if my sides got worse than mentioned.anyway wat say you?

Yea, you could just keep nolva on hand , and start using it if gyno symptoms occur... Keep in mind nolva can also also reduce your gains ( it lowers IGF) , and alot of people report that they experience a loss of gains when using it ... If I get sides I use usually use nolva , depending on what compounds I am using ( I dont use 19 nors with nolva), and than I discontinue the nolva when the symptoms are gone ( usually in a week , or so)..


Merc.

[JAY_WD]

Injectable ??? You mean liquid oral ?

I have a script from my doctor for letro .. It is pills dosed at 2.5 mg ..


Its a pain in the ass trying to cut the pill into .25 mg pieces.. I wish it was in liquid ( oral ) form as it would be much easier ..


Merc.

I have the oral form too. 2.5mg/1ml.

Is it ok to take 2.5mg every 10 days to get the same effect as 0.25ED?

What is Letro's half life?

[bpm1]

Yea, you could just keep nolva on hand , and start using it if gyno symptoms occur... Keep in mind nolva can also also reduce your gains ( it lowers IGF) , and alot of people report that they experience a loss of gains when using it ... If I get sides I use usually use nolva , depending on what compounds I am using ( I dont use 19 nors with nolva), and than I discontinue the nolva when the symptoms are gone ( usually in a week , or so)..


Merc.

cool, thats how i'll approach it as well.im not planning on any 19nors for a while, i'll never run deca again and im toying with the idea of tren but not for a while if ever..............
thanks for the response and merry christmas!!

[Merc..]

I have the oral form too. 2.5mg/1ml.

Is it ok to take 2.5mg every 10 days to get the same effect as 0.25ED?

What is Letro's half life?

Letro has a half life of about 2 days... You would want to take it ED or EOD...

It can take 3-6 wks to reach steady blood plasma levels..


Merc.