how often to inject

[Thunderlips]

Hi, was just wondering about injection frequency with the following from an UGL.
It is called sus 350. It has all the same test blends as regular sus 250 but also has 100mg/ml of test enthanate. does it need to be shot eod as normal sust does or does the 100mg/ml of test enthanate allow for lesser injection frequency.

[Xtralarg]

Still eod

[sphincter]

eod as sust is sust and as such it needs Eod injections... the test E will slowly build up your test levels to a point but you still ned EOD to get the benefit of stable blood levels from the remaining compounds.

[magic32]

That's a good question that seems to permeate the forum, warranting explanation:

Some blends are primarily long esters, meaning they can be shot twice or even once (though blood concentrations will fall, increasing sides) a week. Other blends vary, and anyone can toss you an answer, but whether it's true or not is a mathematical issue that exceeds Sust's 1 short, 1 long and 2 medium length esters meaning it's quick and durable.

The answer lays within the actual composition of the blend, and is necessarily somewhat verbose for clarity.

Sust is a blend of: 30 mg prop; 60 mg isocaproate; 60 mg phenylpropionate; and 100 mg decanoate, equalling 250mgs.

But each mg. (amount) is weighted by the number of carbons in the ester (dictates release rate) giving us weights of: prop = 3; iso = 6; phenyl = 9; and deca = 10.

So looking above Decanoate is the greatest ingredient by amount at 100mgs and by weight at 10 carbons, and is followed by phenyl and iso, both relatively heavy at 9 & 6 carbons respectively and high in content at 60mgs each for 48% of the total blend.

This clearly illustrates that Sust 250 is a rather strong, fairly heavy blend that can easily be shot twice weekly with VERY well-controlled blood concentrations.

--------------------------

The addition of the Enanthate ester as in Sust 350, completely rebalances the scale by adding a FULL 100mgs (29% of the total blend) of another medium 7-carbon ester. This transforms Sust 250 already light-heavy weight (were it a boxer), into Sust 350 or a bonafide extremely heavy weight (we’re talking Butterbean).

In which case shooting twice a week is far more than substantial.

[sliceNdice]

That's a very good way to look at it magic. Learn something new everyday. . .

[PEWN]

That's a good question.

Some blends are primarily long esters, meaning they can be shot twice or even once (though blood concentrations will fall, increasing sides) a week. Other blends vary, and anyone can toss you an answer, but whether it's true or not is a mathematical issue that exceeds Sust's 1 short, 1 long and 2 medium length esters meaning it's quick and durable.

The answer lays within the actual composition of the blend, and is necessarily be somewhat verbose for clarity.

Sust is a blend of: 30 mg prop; 60 mg isocaproate; 60 mg phenylpropionate; and 100 mg decanoate, equalling 250mgs.

But each mg. (amount) is weighted by the number of carbons in the ester (dictates release rate) giving us weights of: prop = 3; iso = 6; phenyl = 9; and deca = 10.

So looking above Decanoate is the greatest ingredient by amount at 100mgs and by weight at 10 carbons, and is followed by phenyl and iso, both relatively heavy at 9 & 6 carbons respectively and high in moderate in content at 60mgs each for 48% of the total blend.

This clearly illustrates that Sust 250 is a rather strong, fairly heavy blend that can easily be shot twice weekly with VERY well-controlled blood concentrations.

--------------------------

The addition of the Enanthate ester as in Sust 350, completely rebalances the scale by adding a FULL 100mgs (29% of the total blend) of another medium 7-carbon ester. This transforms Sust 250 already light-heavy weight (were it a boxer), into Sust 350 or a bonafide extremely heavy weight (we’re talking Butterbean).

In which case shooting twice a week is far more than substantial.

awesome post .... much respect.....

[Thunderlips]

Wow! thanks magic. that's the kind of detailed answer i was looking for.

[J*U*icEd]

you could in theory inject just twice a week but why?!... why wouldn't you want to get the most out of your gear and utilize the short esters in the blend... shooting it ED or EOD will give you the most for your money... it will keep your blood levels more steady then injecting twice a week and will minimize the chances for sides such as gyno, water retention and such... u could if you really wanted to shoot it twice a week, but you wont get the most out if it, which is what the sust blend you have is made to do... why do you think they put the short esters in there... if you decide to shoot twice a week ull be wasting money and you should have just bought a single estered test in the first place if u wanted to lessen the injection frequency... use the sust to it's fullest, it's made to be injected ED or EOD, and make the best of it... thats what it's made for... JMO

[magic32]

Juiced,

What you're saying does make sense, and I have and will always respect your knowledge and input. I only ask that you consider this...

you could in theory inject just twice a week but why?!... why wouldn't you want to get the most out of your gear and utilize the short esters in the blend... shooting it ED or EOD will give you the most for your money... it will keep your blood levels more steady then injecting twice a week and will minimize the chances for sides such as gyno, water retention and such... u could if you really wanted to shoot it twice a week, but you wont get the most out if it, which is what the sust blend you have is made to do...

why do you think they put the short esters in there...
The inherent value of the blend is that it provides short ester rapid results, with long ester maintenance (shot intervals) and evacuation time.

if you decide to shoot twice a week ull be wasting money and you should have just bought a single estered test in the first place if u wanted to lessen the injection frequency...
Not if you want to benefit from the jump start within a single product. True the single long ester works well, if you're patient or if you add Dbol as a jumper.

use the sust to it's fullest, it's made to be injected ED or EOD
Actually it's made to be shot once weekly, but we manipulate it for bb'er purposes and results.

As for wasting money, that's what'll happen if too often inject a long ester right? For example, Enth shot ED.

That's precisely what's happening if you're injecting a long ester heavy blend (bulk of Test from long e's) too regularly just to benefit from the minimal short e's.

Sust 350 is 320mgs of longer esters (260 if the inbetween iso ester is considered medium) so why shoot it so often. Its configuration argues the opposite point...if you want to shoot ED or EOD you should use small single ester, to save money.

Or, one might strike a compromise of both worlds and shoot more often at the onset, and less after the long e's kick-in...but this is still uneconomical as there are better ways of doing it.

[Merc..]

Most people dont realize that sust is made for HRT .. The short ester is added to give faster results until the longer chain esters take effect..

Yea it would be (the prop) like a kick start until the long esters kicked in .. So it would be best to do a higher frequency at first and than lower the inject frequency when the long chained esters kick.. I want to keep more stable blood levels in the beginning ( with the prop ) and than you could lower inject frequency . I personally like single esters ..


Merc.

[RA]

Excellent post magic..

One question though. If it makes not difference why would one experience more sides (acne,etc) shooting it less often.

That's a good question that seems to permeate the forum, warranting explanation:

Some blends are primarily long esters, meaning they can be shot twice or even once (though blood concentrations will fall, increasing sides) a week. Other blends vary, and anyone can toss you an answer, but whether it's true or not is a mathematical issue that exceeds Sust's 1 short, 1 long and 2 medium length esters meaning it's quick and durable.

The answer lays within the actual composition of the blend, and is necessarily somewhat verbose for clarity.

Sust is a blend of: 30 mg prop; 60 mg isocaproate; 60 mg phenylpropionate; and 100 mg decanoate, equalling 250mgs.

But each mg. (amount) is weighted by the number of carbons in the ester (dictates release rate) giving us weights of: prop = 3; iso = 6; phenyl = 9; and deca = 10.

So looking above Decanoate is the greatest ingredient by amount at 100mgs and by weight at 10 carbons, and is followed by phenyl and iso, both relatively heavy at 9 & 6 carbons respectively and high in content at 60mgs each for 48% of the total blend.

This clearly illustrates that Sust 250 is a rather strong, fairly heavy blend that can easily be shot twice weekly with VERY well-controlled blood concentrations.

--------------------------

The addition of the Enanthate ester as in Sust 350, completely rebalances the scale by adding a FULL 100mgs (29% of the total blend) of another medium 7-carbon ester. This transforms Sust 250 already light-heavy weight (were it a boxer), into Sust 350 or a bonafide extremely heavy weight (we’re talking Butterbean).

In which case shooting twice a week is far more than substantial.

[J*U*icEd]

i can see where your coming from here... i know that sustanon was made for HRT and that we manipulate it to use it to our benefit as BBers... but 30% of the gear in regular sustanon 250 should be shot atleast EOD, and in my mind it is senseless not to take advantage of 1/3 of the gear, that is where you are wasting money... i don't see where you would be wasting money buy injecting less more frequently, it actually balances out... for example say you inject enthante ED just at 100mgs/day instead of twice a week at 350mgs/per shot, you aren't saving any money by injecting twice a week but you are using the ester more pratically and to your benefit if you shoot twice a week, thats the way i see sustanon, injecting less on a daily basis lets you use the sust to your advantage, and you get to utilize the gear to it's fullest... the only waste of money injecting it more often would be the extra 3 dollars a week you would have to spend on pins... now the way i look at it is if you are injecting twice a week you are wasting money buy not utilizing 30% of the gear to it's fullest, and besides that fact the flucuation in blood levels, although mild, will cause acne as well as other unwanted sides... but magic i do see where you are coming from, and i understand the reason why it is used for HRT, and the benefits from using during HRT, but i just don't see why as a BBer and someone who wants to get the most out of their gear why you wouldn't wana shoot it ED or atleast EOD... unless you are worried about sticking yourself and wana keep injection frequency down, i don't see why you wouldn't shoot EOD atleast.... thats just the way i see it...

[J*U*icEd]

i do understand why people could use it twice a week and see great benefits from it... i personally don't like that idea and would rather use a single longer estered gear and jumpstart is with something shorter if i could only inject twice a week... but i love sustanon especially durateston and don't mind the injection frequency of ED... but to each their own...

[J*U*icEd]

very good post though magic... i respect what ur tryin to say here... much props!!

[magic32]

--------------
Juiced,
You're not wasting any of the Test.
The short e’s (short & mid) are integral early which is why blends were created…to provide significant immediate impact (1/3 in 250’s, ¼ in 350’s, etc).
The bb'er takes advantage of this via the "early shot" upon which blood concentrations accumulate, eventually making the short e’s duration irrelevant. By then the only thing of importance becomes the dosage. Short e's still significantly impact OVERALL blood levels, they simply degrade quicker or rise and fall without being detrimental to accumulation because half-lives go in cycles.

I know this sounds somewhat contradictory to what is believed but it can be easily looked up, just bear with me. Here's a truncated version regarding ONLY the timing aspect (see sig for full description):

When a drug (medication, compound, hormone, etc.) experiences/reaches its half-life 50%, the drug has been absorbed, degraded and eliminated. Now, some think that when the same amount time has passes again that the other 50% is exhausted, but this is not the case. In actuality the elapsing of subsequent equal timeframes eliminates one half of the remnant, or half of the remaining 50%. It continues to depreciate to 25%, followed by 12%, 6% etc. until extinction.

So the Prop keeps working even though it's half gone.
----------------------------------------

Excellent post magic..
One question though. If it makes not difference why would one experience more sides (acne,etc) shooting it less often.

Short answer: Sides are only of issue when compounds (single or blended) begin to experience the OVERALL half-life.

Correct BB’er reasoning is that its best (least sides) to stay ahead of the game (within the 75th percentile), or at least upper limit of a hormone’s INITIAL half-life. For example, an Enth shot is still above baseline by the 8th day (the timeframe for its half-life) but to promote bloodstream accumulation, which reduces hormonal decline, which in turn limits sides, we re-inject halfway (3.5 to 4 days/75th percentile) to the actual the half-life staving off sides.

Now, the reason the above illustrated Enth issues are not applicable to Sustanon's short esters, is the same reason Sust necessarily follows the above Enth protocol, namely the longer esters determine the OVERALL half-life, even though the short one’s rise and fall intermittently.

This brings us full circle to what I said to Juiced, for some reason people think that short esters don’t affect overall blood concentrations simply because the degrade quicker.

[brama2377]

there are some nice thoughts above on sust from every point of view.
in my opinion, shooting sust EOD is a waste. the short acting esters are to hit the receptors within the first several days of injecting. as the longer acting ester kicsk in, it will occupy MOST of the test receptors until its levels fall...which is in about 3 weeks. by injecting one a week or twice a week, the long acting ester will occupy ALL of the receptors after 2-3 weeks. after that, the short acting esters play little, if any, role..maybe 5-6% at most.
you could always try both methods and objectively measure your results, but given you know you are injecting (lack of blinding the study) and a sample size of 1, the results would not be reliable.