how long before water retention (and hence higher bp) goes away?

[notauser]

i just finished an enanthate cycle.. ended it with prop such that the pct times coincide.. running hcg/nolva/arimi (couldn't get aromasin) along with clomid too..

i started the ai 1 week before pct start date so that there's no "lag time".. can't notice much of a difference in my face after a week..

any thoughts on how long it takes for water retention and hence bp to go away?

[browboy]

I'm curious about something and then will give you my answer. How long did you run your cycle and at what dosages? Also what are your stats? Reason I am asking is that I am considering running a "correct" cycle, doing test e only. I ran a screwed up one-listend to all the wrong people prior to finding this site-and I am still having bp issues almost three months after my last injection. Got to the point two months ago that I had to go to the doctor and get on bp meds. And even with those, it still hasn't come back to normal. They have done a bunch of other tests, and everything else is perfect. So I guess to answer your question, it may take some time. I am hoping that soon mine will get back to normal, and then I will decide if I am gonna do another on or not. I really don't want to experience what I did this last time, but I guess I am assuming it all was because of the messed up cycle. What is your bp at also?

[notauser]

time on was 12 weeks..
dbol 1-4 20mg/day
test e 10 weeks 400mg/wk
test prop 11-12 350mg/wk

bp was 140/92 highest recorded.. never ran anything higher than that.. i took a risk of not using an ai to lower it.. bad move because i just read it puts your kidney at strain and you risk getting a stroke.. if i knew this i would've ran an ai there and then..

bump for answers

[peteroy01]

it took me about 3 wks to really start loosing my water weight after i started PCT. and BP went down 15 on both syst and dyst.

[Warrior]

Much of this is diet-related, as well as your current body composition. In fact, most problems assocated with edema can be resolved by not starting a cycle until bodyfat is reasonable; less interaction with aromatase. If you clean up your diet, you can help release some of the swelling. A lot of processed and dry junk foods won't help - especially alcohol. Keep hydrated; drink a lot of water. I would recommend using the two weeks waiting for the enanthate to exit, until you actually start PCT, to drop your carbs - this helps release water as well as mobolize some of the fat you gained while on cycle. Then, once PCT starts, you must eat and train at a maintance level until you recover endogneous androgen production... by that time estorgen-related edema should become nominal...

Also, you are using too many anti-e drugs. How much testosterone where you taking and for how long?

[notauser]

time on was 12 weeks..
dbol 1-4 20mg/day
test e 10 weeks 400mg/wk
test prop 11-12 350mg/wk

yeah i'm not sure if i should drop the clomid. i mean i'm using the hcg/nolva/arimi based on hooker's pct.. adding the clomid in for safety. i did a clean bulk. i went on the cycle at 8-9% bf. now i'm not sure where i am.. but definitely not too fat.. i gained 14.5kg and 4+ inches around the waist..

i constantly increased calories throughout the cycle but all clean.

should i drop clomid?

[Warrior]

You need Clomid PCT. You don't need to block estrogen post cycle with Nolvadex, you need to lower it so the hypothalamus can recover. So ditch the Nolvadex after the last shot. Your use of T was pretty modest... the only Arimidex you may have needed would be the last coule weeks - if that... reasonable amounts of estrogen have cardio-protective qualities as well as a favorable impact on GH. If you are lean, you'll have less interaction with aromatase anyway - as compared to someone at a high amount of body fat (another reason to elan up pre-cycle). HCG might be necessary since 12 weeks was a long time to go on an AAS cycle - can you actually train at 100 perent effort for 12+ weeks straight without overtraining?

Remember, the more drugs you take, the more combinations you use... the more you run the risk for an unknown contradiction... keep shit simple and with purpose.

After all the gear has exited you need to switch to a maintenance diet (do not eat at a defecit) and train at maintenance (do not over reach/train during this important period). Run Clomid loads until sex drive and disposition is back on track... or blood work shows favorable endogenous T production.

[notauser]

yep had to be modest because i wouldn't wanna use too much first cycle..

i had to do a deload week at week 9 or so.. just to prevent burn out during pct.
(12 weeks on + 4 weeks pct = 16 weeks.. at an enhanced intensity there's just no way i could do it..)

but anyway i'm following anthony robert's pct so i think i should follow thru with it.. i may drop the clomid though..

[Warrior]

Nothing wrong with that - that's a great first cycle, aside from trying to stay on for 12 weeks. Once the gains stop flowing, it's best to go ahead and retire the gear and recover the hypothalamus; the longer you stay on, the harder it can be to make the transition back...

I don't understand your rational to take Nolvadex instead of Clomid post-cycle. Nolvadex only blocks estrogen - elevated E will delay recovery. **** Nolvadex PCT unless you were taking a lot of gear. It's a simple selective ER antagonist - take it to keep your breast tissue safe during elevated blood E levels while on, not off... Arimidex would be more helpful PCT since elevated E levels will delay recovery - but I don't think your estrogen should be too high - unless you are overweight/fat.

Unlike Nolvadex, Clomid is used clinically to induce ovulation and has shown in several studies to increase LH/FSH and testosterone, in men - Clomid does what you need post cycle. It's affects are more successful if you take the time to become insulin sensitive by cutting some carbs before PCT begins (Metformin has been show to make Clomid theraphy more successful). Take it in bursts until recovered...

[notauser]

"Nolvadex also has some important features for the steroid using athlete. In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed (35)It can also block a bit of estrogen in the pituitary, which is a great benefit when used with HCG (more on that later) (36)(37). The increase in testosterone Nolvadex can give someone with a dysfunctional is basically that 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (6)...Why don’t we use Clomid, another SERM? Well, basically because it takes much more to do the same thing. In comparison, it would require 150mgs of Clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in testosterone, but Nolvadex also has the added benefit of significantly increasing the LH
(Leutenizing Hormone) response to LHRH (LH-releasing hormone) (6). This most likely indicates some kind of upregulation of the LH-receptors due to the anti-estrogenic effect Nolvadex has at the pituitary. Although both Nolvadex and Clomid are both SERMs, they are actually quite different. As you already know, Nolvadex is highly anti-estrogenic at the hypothalamus and pituitary, while Clomid exhibits weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary (7), which as you can guess, is less than ideal. It should be avoided for the PCT I’m suggesting…and in fact, avoided in general…it’s simply not as good as Nolvadex."

quoted from the anthony roberts' pct thread.. i'm no expert on this topic but it seems like nolva is better than clomid ?