Calorie restriction on AAS? (Cutting advice?)

**EatLiftSleep** · 11-09-2007, 07:34 AM

Hey guys,

I have just finished bulking and will begin a cut starting Monday.

I have a question regarding calorie restirction while on AAS.
I plan to run Winstrol /Clen for a cut.

I was wondering, how much of a calorie deficit can I run, withot loosing muscle? I'll clarify, can I get away with eating a very low calories and not loosing mass, on Winny/Clen?

I am about 212 lbs at about 19-21% bodyfat, I am about 5"7.

I want to get down to 10-12%.....how long should this take with Winstrol/Clen, a clean diet and proper training/cardio?

Thanks.

**green22** · 11-09-2007, 07:39 AM

It will take a long time. if your 20% you are way to fat to be wasteing money on winny. Just diet and bust ass on cardio. When you get to 10% then add drugs.

**EatLiftSleep** · 11-09-2007, 07:53 AM

19-21% is just being on the safe side. I am probably 18-19% max.
And FYI, I cut down from around the same bodyfat to around 12% in about 16 weeks, naturally last time around. HOWEVER, I lost SOME muscle (not a lot, but enough to concern me.)

The reason I am adding drugs, is because I do not want to sacrifice muscle.
The question was NOT should I USE AAS or not, it was regarding calories and time as I have never
cut with drugs before. I don't see how it would take a long time with AAS assistance.
Also, I have no need to cut down to less than 10%, I am not in competition.
I just want to look defined, not just big.

Regardless, thankyou for your input.

**hugovsilva** · 11-09-2007, 07:56 AM

You shouldn't run winny for 16 weeks. 8-10 weeks tops.

**EatLiftSleep** · 11-09-2007, 08:00 AM

No, no. I should have clarified.

Winny will be run for 6 weeks (3 on, 1 week off, 3 on.)
Clen will be run for 2 weeks, 1 more week with Benardryl...2 weeks off. Repeat for 3 weeks.

**hugovsilva** · 11-09-2007, 08:01 AM

That's no way of running winny. Why the 1 week off?

And if you use benadryl with clen you don't need the 2 weeks off.

**EatLiftSleep** · 11-09-2007, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by hugovsilva

That's no way of running winny. Why the 1 week off?

And if you use benadryl with clen you don't need the 2 weeks off.

I am lead to believe that Winny is quite harsh on the liver, joints, and lipid profile. I have been told that a 1 week break, will help the body stablize a little bit, as well as reduce the effect of diminishing returns.

I thought, Clen is only ever effective for 3 weeks max, the 3rd week only being effective if Benadryl is used to help in the regulation of beta receptors?

**hugovsilva** · 11-09-2007, 08:15 AM

If you upregulate the beta2 receptors you can continue.

As for the break in winny, you will just be clearing the body of it when you are getting results and then you have to start over a wait for the levels to build up again, not to mention the unstable levels that can lead to sides.

**EatLiftSleep** · 11-09-2007, 08:27 AM

Ok thanks.
I'll keep going with the Winny.

How long can I get away with using Clen for with Bendaryl?

**dece870717** · 11-09-2007, 03:36 PM

With something like Tren I don't know what too low cals would be. I've run Tren in a cut and was eating only half of what my maintenance is in calories(about 1,500 cals a day) and doing 2 hours of cardio a day(total of 1,000 calories) and still gaining strength every week, stuff is sick!

**EatLiftSleep** · 11-09-2007, 07:50 PM

Hmm, I can't get tren from my source.

I have some Test Prop on hand, but I want to save that for bulking (source no longer available.)

So Winny/Clen is the go.

Anyone dieted while on Winny?

**EatLiftSleep** · 11-10-2007, 07:47 PM

Anyone got any advice?

**magic32** · 11-10-2007, 10:06 PM

All Hugo's advice was dead on, glad you listened.

As for your plans, this minor cycle will HELP given your dieting knowledge and listed experience. But you'd be better off considering Var rather than Winnie which is typically a finisher, and adding T3.

What concerns me is the fact that you dieted to 12%, and then blew back up to 20%. What did you do have twins (kidding)? But you should certainly evaluate how that happened and correct it this time.

As for calories, rather than concentrating on how many calories to eat, you should focus how many to subtract. Dece8 gave you the key, reduce your maintenance amount by 500 calories or so and take it slow rather than going on an unreasonablely extreme VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diet).

What are your proposed dosages? And be aware that Winnie, and Var should be taken twice daily.

**EatLiftSleep** · 11-10-2007, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by magic32

All Hugo's advice was dead on, glad you listened.

As for your plans, this minor cycle will HELP given your dieting knowledge and listed experience. But you'd be better off considering Var rather than Winnie which is typically a finisher, and adding T3.

What concerns me is the fact that you dieted to 12%, and then blew back up to 20%. What did you do have twins (kidding)? But you should certainly evaluate how that happened and correct it this time.

As for calories, rather than concentrating on how many calories to eat, you should focus how many to subtract. Dece8 gave you the key, reduce your maintenance amount by 500 calories or so and take it slow rather than going on an unreasonablely extreme VLCD (Very Low Calorie Diet).

What are your proposed dosages? And be aware that Winnie, and Var should be taken twice daily.

I'll see if I can get some Var.
Yes I am aware winny shall be taken twice daily, I plan to take 25mgs twice daily. Clen i will build up, reaching a maximum dosage of 180mcg split into 3 60mcg dosages daily. Then after 2 weeks I will introduce the Benadryl.

I bulked for close to 8-9months, while my bodyfat has gone up, I have also developed a lot of muscle. That's just how I bulk, I will bulk a lot cleaner next time (will use AAS.) But am happy with what I achieved.

**epno** · 11-10-2007, 10:53 PM

Go to the diet forum and look at the bulking diet sticky: I know you want to loose weight but there's some pertinent information here. As you go down the page you'll see a link to the Elliot Harris Benedict calorie calculator link which is http://www.geocities.com/arelliotness/ . This Excel spreadsheet version of the calculator will figure out your calorie intake for bulking and cutting diets for various activity levels. Then you can adjust the appropriate figure down to loose weight. I'm running a lean mass/cutting cycle using Var, T-3, and Furaguno (an analog of Furazabol). So far so good. My log is in the cycles section.