First Cutting Cycle, and a little confused

[Nstart]

Hi,

I'm finishing up my first bulking cycle where I used 750mg of Sustanon 250 and I made huge gains. I plan to take some time off after this before I begin my first cutting cycle (meaning after the PCT).

I've done a lot of research but I don't full understand how to create a proper cycle since no two sources are similar. So I was thinking of a cycle something like this:

Week 1-12:
250mg of sus per week (everything points to a test as being the base)
50mg of winstrol every day
50mg of tren every day
.25mg of Liquidex every day

I'm a little concerned about the tren since it appears to be a very dangerous drug. My primary objective is to drop all the body fat I gained while retaining as much muscle mass as possible (and even gain some if possible). I also want my body to have that hard look but I can't find what drug does this.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[kynetguy]

Give it time. . .your fat (bloat) will go away during/after PCT. And see what you are left with. :-) Cutting/bulking is more dictated by diet and cardio than anything.

You will find that you are going to lose probablly half of what you gained. Your cutter doesn't look horrible, but you need to read up some more. There are tons of posts about cutting here. Tren is a good choice. Most people go with a short ester test like Prop because some say it reduces the likelihood of bloat.

[Njord]

You need some more research my friend. You can't run winny for 12 weeks. You shouldn't run tren for that long neither.
What is your stats and planned pct. How long after pct are you planning to start your bulking cycle?

[Amorphic]

wait to use tren for another cycle, i doubt you are ready for it.

sust and winstrol would be fine.

1-12 sust 250-500mg/w
1-8 winstrol 50mg/ed

proper pct and ancillaries on hand.

[EZgainer]

I would trade the sust for prop

[Nstart]

You need some more research my friend. You can't run winny for 12 weeks. You shouldn't run tren for that long neither.
What is your stats and planned pct. How long after pct are you planning to start your bulking cycle?

Before I started by bulking cycle my stats were:

6'0lbs
227lbs
sub 10% body fat

21 days after my last injection of sus I plan to do the following:

100mg clomid for 2 weeks
75mg of clomid for 1 week
50mg of clomid for 1 week
.25mg of Liquidex was used from the start of my cycle I plan to continue this until I finish up with the clomid.

Then I plan to take off 5-6 months or so, and do my cutting cycle. I don't plan to do a bulking cycle after this cutting cycle.

Right now I weigh 270lbs but for some reason most of the fat I gained during this cycle went to my legs, butt, and face. I still have a very defined 6 pack and very little loss in definition in my back. I ate a clean 5500 calorie diet with 400-500 grams of protein per day.

[Amorphic]

the advice above is sufficient for your cycle. check it out and revise your cycle

[Nstart]

I would trade the sust for prop

So my cycle would be something like:

Weeks 1-12: 500mg of Prop a week
Weekls 1-8: 50mg of winstrol every day

?

[Amorphic]

So my cycle would be something like:

Weeks 1-12: 500mg of Prop a week
Weekls 1-8: 50mg of winstrol every day

oral or injectable winstrol?

[Nstart]

the advice above is sufficient for your cycle. check it out and revise your cycle

I know that prop has less bloat, but per ml, sus is a lot cheaper for me to get then prop. But if it would be better for me, I would spend the extra money and get prop instead of sus.

[Nstart]

oral or injectable winstrol?

injectable

I'm willing to use injections over oral since it's less strain on my body (liver).

[10nispro]

Put the prop and winny together.....Wouldn't it be less amount of shots pr/wk? You could shoot at some day and time.

[10nispro]

No lab names...please edit

[Amorphic]

edit the lab name out of your post bro, not allowed to post them.

sust is fine, you dont have to use prop, its up to your personal preference

[Amorphic]

Put the prop and winny together.....Wouldn't it be less amount of shots pr/wk? You could shoot at some day and time.

sust should be shot ed, same goes with prop, so both would have ed injections, mixed in the same syringe

[Njord]

So my cycle would be something like:

Weeks 1-12: 500mg of Prop a week
Weekls 1-8: 50mg of winstrol every day

?

I don't think you need to go 12 weeks with the prop, so:

Week 1-10 75mg Test P ED
Week 1-8 50mg Winny ED (if it is injectable, if oral go 6 weeks)

Hope you like every day injections

[10nispro]

sust should be shot ed, same goes with prop, so both would have ed injections, mixed in the same syringe

sorry....I had my mind on mast and winny....I agree with amorphic

[Njord]

Damn you guys are fast, 6 posts while I was typing my last reply!

[Nstart]

Put the prop and winny together.....Wouldn't it be less amount of shots pr/wk? You could shoot at some day and time.

I'm honestly not really concerned about the number of shots to be honest. I'm more concerned about the results.

Thanks 10nispro and Amorphic, I edited my post.

[Nstart]

You guys are quick as anything. What would give me better results, sus or prop shot everyday along with winstrol?

[Amorphic]

sust and prop are both test, the gains will be similar. diet dictates how well you cut up on cycle.

i would do what Njord suggested.

1-10 test prop 75mg/ed
1-8 winny 50mg/ed

[10nispro]

I with amorphic and njord.....

[Nstart]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the help you guys have provided.

My diet is really under control. In the last 2 years, before I started my cycle, I lost 180lbs naturally so eating right, is something that now comes naturally to me. My main goal with the bulking cycle was to try and correct some of the sagging skin. Now I want to be "normal" if I can call myself that.

[Nstart]

So just to be absolutely sure of this:

Weeks 1-10 Prop 75mg taken everyday
Weeks 1-8 Winstrol 50mg taken everyday

No need for Liquidex throughout the entire cycle?

Post Cycle Therapy:
50mg of clomid for 4 weeks, 3 days after the last injection

[EZgainer]

"270 with a very defined 6-pack"....."227 sub 10% BF natty" .....Got any pics bro u must b a monster

[Nstart]

"270 with a very defined 6-pack"....."227 sub 10% BF natty" .....Got any pics bro u must b a monster

Being so heavy most of my life, my legs got very large and everyone says that is where most of my weight is.

I don't really want to post pictures here because I had surgery to remove the excess skin and the scars I have will easily give away my identity to anyone that knows me.

I could send you before and after pictures of my weightloss through email if you'd like. I don't have pictures of what I currently look like but I can take them on Tuesday and email them to you.

[10nispro]

Save the liquidex for pct...if needed. No need to lower your estrogen levels to low, it could hinder your gains. That information is provided from Merc. here on this site.

[Nstart]

Save the liquidex for pct...if needed. No need to lower your estrogen levels to low, it could hinder your gains. That information is provided from Merc. here on this site.

Thanks

[EZgainer]

no big deal i understand bout the scars and stuff...good luck on that up coming cycle after that u should post some real good transformation pics when the scars heal and u r ready too... transformation pics r the best...keep up the good work bro

[Nstart]

Thanks EZgainer

[kynetguy]

sust should be shot ed, same goes with prop, so both would have ed injections, mixed in the same syringe

LOL, SEE, I told you people would disagree with me.

Of course ED with sust is way overkill. That's only .25ml ED. Not even worth getting a syringe dirty for IMO. . .

[Njord]

LOL, SEE, I told you people would disagree with me.

Of course ED with sust is way overkill. That's only .25ml ED. Not even worth getting a syringe dirty for IMO. . .

That just leaves room for lots of other good stuff.

[kynetguy]

Save the liquidex for pct...if needed. No need to lower your estrogen levels to low, it could hinder your gains. That information is provided from Merc. here on this site.

Being that he is on a CUTTING cycle, I would definately recommend running Ldex @ .25 ED or EoD. You don't need a lot. You jus want to keep bloat down.

While it's true that a absence of estrogen does hinder gains, huge gains are not the goal of a cutter. And the diet required for a true cutting cycle in itself will hinder gains. Not saying you won't/can't gain on a cutter.

[kynetguy]

That just leaves room for lots of other good stuff.

Good point.

[Amorphic]

Being that he is on a CUTTING cycle, I would definately recommend running Ldex @ .25 ED or EoD. You don't need a lot. You jus want to keep bloat down.

While it's true that a absence of estrogen does hinder gains, huge gains are not the goal of a cutter. And the diet required for a true cutting cycle in itself will hinder gains. Not saying you won't/can't gain on a cutter.

i wouldnt use adex on a light cycle like that, i would lean more towards nolva if needed.

it wont hurt to have adex and nolva on hand if he is gyno sensitive, but i doubt he will have any problems, and nolva wont hinder his gains as much as adex would