Going to the dark side?

[MMAfanboy]

Just started reading this forum the last couple of days.. Im 31 years old.. been natural for life other than taking some Dbol when 21... ... been working out since 16.. diet .. work out.. everything is well dialed in and I am very muscular and lean for natural.. 5'9.. 197 pounds. I have found I cant break past that though without putting on fat.. taking all the right things naturally... got my test tested and it is 350....

Some of the stuff I have been reading on this forum is guys who have gone to the dark side and now their systems are shot..

So my question two part question is?:

1) If I go to the dark side properly will I improve my test long term or make it worse? At this point is it better to just accept my natural gains? If I do juice what are the chances that I will need to take test for the rest of my life? Will jucing help my low test levels?

2) If I do a couple of cycles is it likely I will keep some gains or will it go away after a few months and I will return to my natural state? Or worse will it wreck all the gains I have made in my life so far?

I know it is my decision and there are no sure things in life... I just want to know after all these years of putting hard work in the gym and diet ect. if I will ruin those gains and destroy my system or will it I be able to get a few more pounds of gains I can keep long term?

Thanks..

Luke..LOL!

[Getinbgr]

A few answers:

Cycle will not help your low test levels longterm.

If you juice, it is unlikely that you'll need to take test the rest of your life, unless you already need TRT now. You will neither help or hurt your baseline test levels longterm. Chronic and abusive steroid use can negatively affect your natural test levels.

If you cycle, you'll likely keep a portion of your gains after each cycle, if, any only if, you do a proper PCT and continue with your diet and work-out splits.

[MMAfanboy]

Thanks.. Which are the safest ones to use in terms of not affecting baseline test long term? From what I read it looks like test injections are relatively safe.. maybe some d bol .. stay away from Decca.. ?? If a proper cycle is run, what would be the number of cycles to use that would give you good gains but not be considered abuse or risk long term injury to your system?... I am considering doing three cycles.. the first being test only.. second test with D bol and third test with something else...

I am 5'9 197.. good shape cardio and muscle wise... my goal is to put on ten more all around pounds and lose body fat... I eat very clean with lots of protein and work out everyday (alternating between weight training and cardio)... I dont want to get too bulked up as I want to maintain my cardio condition... I would just like to take off about 15 pounds of fat and replace it with lean body mass (I know it doesn't work that way, but you get the idea)... any other suggestions would be appreciated..

[XNathan]

Try test only cycle 500mg EW will be more than enough. Most of guy here recomend you 12wks, I prefer 8wks and personaly my test kick in 3wk when it is long ester and 2wk when it is short ester.

Keep your training and nutrition and result will come, particulary when you are musclular good shape on 350 test level. Your cycle level shoot 2000+

[RBIZZY]

well first start off with a test only cycle. test e 500mg a week... you will see good results from this if your diet is in check. take that for 12 weeks and do a proper pct.... have a serm and a.i. with letro on hand incase of gyno. remember time on plus pct equals time off... then after that start thinking about other cycles...

[largerthannormal]

agreed, finally someone with some good questions! test to begin with is a good idea. i would hold off on deca to see how u respond to the test, which in your cause should be rather well. ur test levels im pretty sure at around 500mg per week should come pretty close to upwards of 2000 instead of 350.correct me if im wrong guys! u should see a great differences from test alone..for what u are tryin to accomplish i would stay away from dbol also to keep the water retention down!

[largerthannormal]

dang u beat me to it! anyway everyone is defferent but 8 is too low most people test results u wont see till week 5-6 ...

[XNathan]

dang u beat me to it! anyway everyone is defferent but 8 is too low most people test results u wont see till week 5-6 ...

My favorite is prop. Quick action, less sides and in case of sides (gyno) changed dose will answer in few days. Never experienced prop pain. Enanthate give me huge gains in water and gyno after 1wk... but 2 per week aplication is nice oposit to EOD or ED prop.

[MMAfanboy]

Most of the new guys I read on here are 19-21 year olds looking for the quick route... that is DEFINITELY not me... I started training when 16...I was 119 pounds when I started.. now I am 31 and 197 pounds in good shape... I eat clean and know how to train... so it is not something I am jumping into.. fantastic base as I am already taking the following supplements...

Morning

Glutamine
Multi Vitamin
Potassium
Fish oil
L Carnatine
Green Tea
Fat burner...
Glucosamine
DHEA

Pre Work out

protien powder
fish oil
fat burner
Fast twitch nitrus Oxide...


Bedtime..

ZMA
Fish Oil
Melatonin
81 Mil Asperin
Glutamine
Protien powder

I train intensely .. both weight training and cardio... sleep 8 hours..feel I have reached my natural limits... that is the ONLY reason I am considering this.. plus I got tested and my natural test is low... I feel I earned this a lot more than the young punks on here who dont know shit..

[MMAfanboy]

BTW to those saying you cant grow naturally.. I put on 80 lean pounds since I was 16 training and eating right... and I am a hardgainer with low natural test..

[MMAfanboy]

Another questions... would it be better to do a cycle or to get on TRT? What are the pros and cons of both?

[XNathan]

Cycle dramatic results in short time but 3 steps forward 1step back. And hard to foretell but you can have problems with recovery when you are naturaly low end.

TRT slower but constant results and few months maybe years of slow progress until you will reach new limit what test level 700-900 give you. But risk of even lower test after TRT end but TRT is for life.

Do you plan kids? On TRT it can be harder to conceive but with good peptide help is still posible.

[Getinbgr]

Another questions... would it be better to do a cycle or to get on TRT? What are the pros and cons of both?

You won't get gains on TRT. TRT is intended to maintain an average hormone level. The dose on TRT is far to low to grow muscle on its own.

[XNathan]

You won't get gains on TRT. TRT is intended to maintain an average hormone level. The dose on TRT is far to low to grow muscle on its own.

Increase form 300 to 800 of test is positive and you will gain muscle not explosively but gain nice muscle mass over time. Until you will not fully use new limits from higher test.

Other story is when you was cycle in past and you are hypo after long term use. There you are musclular more than you will be on 800 test level and thats why you will not gain any more muscle.

But he is low end naturaly and never cycle yet. For him will be even working 250mg enathate/week more than enough for results and on 500mg/wk he will explode.

[MMAfanboy]

Yes I have not yet had kids... one day will want them.. still relatively young.. dont want to be on something for the rest of my life if it means I have to stay on it.. just want a boost to put on some gains without compromising long term. If I did one cycle of test and got some gains that i would keep long term without compromising my system than it would be worth it... if I took it and it screwed up my natural test and then my gains eventually went back after going off of it.. it would be a waste of time and money and not worth it for me.. that is why I am seeking advise on the matter.. sounds to me that a cycle would actually be safer for me than TRT but if seriously, a year later .. ... even with eating and training hard (like I already do) would I keep gains or would I just revert to my natural state without gains?

[XNathan]

I think you are on your genetical limits. Dont expect +20lbs. I think you can gain around 12-15lbs and keep with good PCT 10lbs. How long you will keep them? Until some flu will not hit you or some injury will not keep you back from training or eating good. You will be behind your genetic and when zou fall back you can only reach your precycle genetic limit maybe plus some extra pound.

I was 230lbs for 6 months after cycle but than I cant train good and eat well and my weight fall down to 215lbs my genetic limit on my normal test 600-700.

Try cycle nothink wrong will happend to you. You will not ruin your life even you will not be satisfied with long time results. Personal experience is best IMO.

[MMAfanboy]

Thanks for the good advice Nathan.. I just did a post about Anavar if you have any experience with that..