HCG the best of both balls

[Merc..]

This is from s.com's first newsletter .. I thought it was a very interesting write up...


HCG – The Best of Both Balls

By Anthony Roberts,
Senior Editor, Steroid.com

When I first had published my thoughts on Post –Cycle Therapy, I recommended using HCG . Other than those thoughts, and reasoning behind it, I really didn’t give much thought to HCG. Frankly, many people (Dan Duchaine, etc…) had recommended it for PCT before me – and many went on to recommend it for PCT after me (Dr. Michael Scally, for one ). Clearly Duchaine made his recommendations before me (he was dead before I was even published) and I guess I need to note that although Dr. Scally had his thoughts on PCT published after me, clearly he had been using HCG with his patients much prior to this.

Just because I happened to recommend it for PCT doesn’t mean that I invented its use for that purpose – nor do I think that I’ve invented he wheel. But honestly, I thought that recommending it for PCT was just that…a reccomendation for it’s use after a cycle, and nothing more.

Unfortunately, many people have interpreted this to mean that it’s only use, in my opinion, is for PCT. So I’m going to go over some different protocols for HCG use, as it’s been seen throughout the years. I never said that I think it’s totally useless while on a cycle – I just never really covered that use in my writing.

Oops.

But then again, there’s a lot of different ways that people have theorized that HCG could be used for various purposes…and I’ve only written about a few of them until now. I’m going to present you with some different ideas regarding HCG use, and that information is yours to do what you want with…to incorporate into your cycles, talk to your doctor about, use after a cycle…whatever.

The first time HCG for use with anabolic steroids had ever really been written about in detail was in Anabolic Steroids and Sports, Volume II, by James E. Wright PhD. In this book, he covers the three ways HCG had been utilized by anabolic steroid using athletes:


1. For 1-3 weeks following (500-5,000 units 1-2x/week) a cycle
2. (and) for varying lengths of time during (500-5,000 units 1-2x a week) a cycle*
3. As a stand alone anabolic
4. For fat loss (the so-called HCG diet)

However, there are two other schools of thought regarding concurrent HCG use with (or after) anabolics, and neither is very new either. In fact, both have been around since the earliest books on underground steroid use , and were spoken about more than a decade ago by Dan Duchaine (Underground Steroid Handbook) and also by W. Nathaniel Phillips (Anabolic Reference Guide volume 6). Phillips (who later wrote “Body for Life” and seems to have aged negative ten years over the last 20 or so) has some wacky ideas about HCG use, one of which being to stop using anabolic steroids (while on a long cycle) for about 2 weeks, and just use HCG for that period, then starting up the AAS again. I don’t think this is optimal, but it’s not going to kill you.

Duchaine originally recommended something along the lines of 1,000-1,500iu every third week on a cycle, then some HCG and Clomid afterwards for PCT. Then in his second edition of the Underground Steroid Handbook, he recommends 500-1,000 1-2x* a week during a cycle (perhaps with some Nolvadex ), while for getting off steroids he recommends 1,000iu E3D (along with tapering off the injectable dose, as well as the oral dose, starting with the most toxic steroids first, and lowering the total oral mgs every third day).

* Interestingly, there has been a doctor (of what Duchaine would refer to as the “benign-quack variety) who frequents various internet forums, claiming that he invented the “500iu of HCG 2x a week protocol”…which COULD HARDLY BE TRUE, since Dr. Wright first mentions this protocol in his book (1982), and Duchaine used a similar protocol in his second Underground Steroid Handbook.

What I’ve seen from athletes, anecdotally at least, is that when used on a cycle sparingly, HCG helps to maintain testicular size and condition. It is further speculated that the intermittent administration of HCG will keep the testicles receptive to LH, when we eventually go off a cycle. This may be due to HCG’s ability to help you maintain of a higher level of Inter-Testicular-Testosterone (ITT), when used during a cycle. This could aid and quicken your recovery of the hypothalamic-testicular-pituitary-axis. This is certainly possible, although I’ve never seen bloodwork or really good data confirming it.

The reason I tend to recommend it for PCT is that when used after a cycle, it will help in restoring your testicles back to their original size, and provide stimulation for the Leydig cells. Both using it during a cycle and for pct methods has merit, and there’s no reason why you can’t use HCG every third week at a one time dose (perhaps) 500iu or so, and then use it at that same dose for a daily schedule at the outset of your Post Cycle Therapy .

Dr. Scally has told me that he thinks that 500iu is too small of a dose (Duchaine disagrees), and that 2,500iu is the minimum he’s seen to be effective in his patients.

Personally, from countless users feedback on steroid.com, I feel that 500iu/day for 3 weeks (along with the rest of my PCT protocol) is highly effective…it’s probably the most commonly used do-it-yourself PCT for steroid users in the world. I’ll get more into the research and studies in the next part of this article, but for now, suffice it to say that I have never been “against” HCG for use on a cycle. It’s been done since the early 80’s at least, which is the first time I’ve seen the 500iu 2x/week protocol spoken about.

I know that my own Hormone Replacement Therapy includes 10,000iu of HCG per month, although I admittedly never even reconstitute the stuff. Chalk it up to laziness or apathy, or whatever you want, but I just never happen to use the stuff.

But I’ll get into this more in part two, when I’ll have to think up another clever title for an article about keeping your balls big.
http://www.steroid.com/newsletter-1-17-08.php



Merc.

[shifty_git]

Good read merc!

Should be added to the HCG info thread in the pct forum!

[largerthannormal]

Now This Is Some Useful Info! I May Try It During A Cycle Now! Thanks Merc

[Merc..]

Good read merc!

Should be added to the HCG info thread in the pct forum!

^^^^^^

[legobricks]

Should be a sticky in the PCT thread.

[Merc..]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Merc.

[shifty_git]

I can see the logic of using hcg during cycle to not only keep htpa size, but to occasionally remind the leydig cells of there job! (obviously without doing 2 much hcg and creating over stimulation)

Do the leydig cells downgrade if not poked occasionally by LH?

[Merc..]

I can see the logic of using hcg during cycle to not only keep htpa size, but to occasionally remind the leydig cells of there job! (obviously without doing 2 much hcg and creating over stimulation)

Do the leydig cells downgrade if not poked occasionally by LH?

LH is required for development and survival of Leydig cells...



Merc.

[largerthannormal]

bump good thread!

[Big]

Good post, bumpity-bump.

[soulstealer]

Great article I love running HCG during cycle I've found that even at a low dose of 300 IU's M-W-F my balls stay full sperm production solid maybe even a little higher then normal........Also I avoid an edgy almost burnt out feeling I usually get around the mid-end of the cycle...

[rodgerj]

Interesting.... so HGC actually makes your bollocks grow? If that is the case, can I assume that used correctly longer term, it could make your man eggs produce more test permanently?

[N4cer]

Quite possibly the best article Anthony Roberts has written in a long time. Very honest, humble, realistic, and down to earth. Anthony, I know you're gonna read this so my old friend, my hat is off to you. That's just good stuff.

[N4cer]

Interesting.... so HGC actually makes your bollocks grow? If that is the case, can I assume that used correctly longer term, it could make your man eggs produce more test permanently?

Nope. Not permanantly at all. HCG is actually suppressive to the HPTA.

[Merc..]

^^^^^^^^^^^

[Lexed]

great post

[LHW84]

hey Merc, I cant Pm you, so pls check out this thread, a friend told me to ask you..
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...60#post3828260

thnx

[d smooth]

great post

[Merc..]

hey Merc, I cant Pm you, so pls check out this thread, a friend told me to ask you..
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...60#post3828260

thnx

replied..

[IntenseAthlete]

Aright so you take some hcg on cycle to keep your boys going but they do produce test into you system right?Then you have a blood level fluxuation that then produces sides we dont want?Is my line of thinking correct?

[N4cer]

Not really. Your line of thinking is first off WAY over-exaggerating the UNPROVEN THEORY that fluctuations produce more sides than just regular high levels.

I'm in no way trying to come off as superior,but I feel I've been blessed by the fact that I've been around for a few years and actually WATCHED this theory develop over time. It went from a theory that a few people had, then people just kept repeating it as if it's a fact to where now people believe it to be factual after being spread around so blatantly without the disclaimer of letting people know it is only a theory and is unproven. "I believe" or some other disclaimer should always be tossed in with something so unproven with little scientific evidence to back it up.

The fact is that it's not proven, and it depends what school of thought you go with. Another school of thought on side effects is that it's much like suppression: once you are at a level different than the body's normal homeostatic level, the sides come on. To illustrate, here is a description using arbitrary numbers:
If normal androgen level is 5, and the body likes it to be between 4-6, then if you are at 12 or 15 or in between, the body doesn't really differentiate. It's still an excess androgen level. Kinda like you can't be a little pregnant. It's on or off.

[IntenseAthlete]

Not really. Your line of thinking is first off WAY over-exaggerating the UNPROVEN THEORY that fluctuations produce more sides than just regular high levels.

I'm in no way trying to come off as superior,but I feel I've been blessed by the fact that I've been around for a few years and actually WATCHED this theory develop over time. It went from a theory that a few people had, then people just kept repeating it as if it's a fact to where now people believe it to be factual after being spread around so blatantly without the disclaimer of letting people know it is only a theory and is unproven. "I believe" or some other disclaimer should always be tossed in with something so unproven with little scientific evidence to back it up.

The fact is that it's not proven, and it depends what school of thought you go with. Another school of thought on side effects is that it's much like suppression: once you are at a level different than the body's normal homeostatic level, the sides come on. To illustrate, here is a description using arbitrary numbers:
If normal androgen level is 5, and the body likes it to be between 4-6, then if you are at 12 or 15 or in between, the body doesn't really differentiate. It's still an excess androgen level. Kinda like you can't be a little pregnant. It's on or off.

ok, so when levels are already high being a little higher or lower at that point really makes no difference.That pretty much somes up my question.Thanks

[perfectbeast2001]

I am currently running TRT so obviously i am permanently shut down. Should i be using HCG and what benefits would it provide?

[N4cer]

Yeah it's all theory. I mean, even after getting a health care degree, I can say human anatomy and physiology is still all theory and is never 100% certain.

[BG]

I am currently running TRT so obviously i am permanently shut down. Should i be using HCG and what benefits would it provide?

I use 200 iu's 2x ew (same day as test injects) with my hrt. I found too much HCG tends to shut me down worst.

[perfectbeast2001]

I use 200 iu's 2x ew (same day as test injects) with my hrt. I found too much HCG tends to shut me down worst.

hey buddy. Why do you add it though? What benefits? Surely if i am going to be permanently supressed whats the point in re stimulating natty test. Just seems to be adding to the hormone roller coster to me... However if there are benefits like improved mood/libido/strength whatever then im in!

[J*U*icEd]

nice post, but im gonna say i disagree wit some of the info written in that post... but as most of us know i have a differing view on the use of HCG and its purpose... ill just throw one of the grevenses i have wit the post... the fact that HCG can be used for fat loss ("HCG diet").... i and many people i have talked to and seen have said that the administration of HCG causes a spike in estrogen resulting in retention of water as well as fat.... even tho these are a given using the drug i myself absolutely love HCG and have used it every cycle... i really can't type all the problems i have wit this right now, i will come back to it....

[N4cer]

I also have issues with the information it is, but Anthony did a good job of pointing out that these are not his ideas. He has just gathered information from the writings of others, making critiquing the info pointless. He's laying out: here are some tools, use them if you want, or leave them.

[White Ghost]

awesome.... bump

[Gears]

I wish you didn`t have to store these in the fridge.

[Merc..]

To The Top !!!!!

[Merc..]

^^^^^^^^^

[theWiseOne]

^^^^^^^^^^^

[Seattle Junk]

I've recommended HCG at 500ius e3d at mid to late cycle for years. It just makes sense if you think about it. You should start this program at the first sign of testicular shrinkage. It's common sense to keep your balls at normal size going into PCT rather than spending a few weeks to get them back in PCT. That just adds to your HPTA recovery time where you could of been a few weeks ahead of schedule.

It works for me and I do notice a much faster HPTA recovery time in PCT. I really don't enjoy taking clomid for over a month. But you really suppose to keep taking clomid until your sex drive is back. We all know how crappy clomid can make you feel.

[Drummerboy]

im giving it a whirl this time in PCT, with the 3 week thing... 500iu ED, nolva, aromasin . Keep ya posted

[oker]

MERC, always enjoy your posts - keep it up bro

[Merc..]

MERC, always enjoy your posts - keep it up bro

Thank you ..



Merc.

[inky-e]

Thank you Mr. Merc !