Is Clenbuterol really that dangerous?

[Schwarz]

Hey all,
I've been doing some research into Clen and it seems that the general message is that Clen is extremely dangerous and can cause severe heart problems. Just wondering if anyone has any feedback from their use of clen? Did you have any problems? What dose and protocol were you using?

Cheers for any feedback.

S

[soulstealer]

Clen is the devils candy.... would suit you best not to use it but if you decide to.... I would suggest nothing over 100mcg...even thats pushing it...would 200mcg's kill..... No but it'll make you feel like you're going to die....

[mr newbreed]

sorry for the hijack but im just running my pct,at the end of it can i run clen to reduce any fat i may have gained or am i better off waiting till i cycle again and use a test product with it..i have never used clen so any in depth advice would be nice

[soulstealer]

You dont take clen to reduce body fat.... you guys have it all wrong... clen is about as effective at reducing bodyfat as Ephedra.... maybe even less so.... the idea behind clen is retention of lean mass...so you can diet harder...

[Amorphic]

im not really a fan of clen . my bloodpressure was sky high on it and i didnt feel any amazing weight loss to go alongside the risks.

my dosages ranged from 160-200mcg of it. i didnt feel much worse at 200mcgs than 160, but the shaking and headaches are a total pain in the ass, especially if you are in school.

[Schmidty]

I fvckn luv clen , hate not being on it. Life just seems2burn a lil brighter when im on it. OH fvck, i gota go back2rehab...LOL. No clen reallt isnt that dangerous, as far as i know no human has ever died from it.

[Amorphic]

I fvckn luv clen, hate not being on it. Life just seems2burn a lil brighter when im on it. OH fvck, i gota go back2rehab...LOL. No clen reallt isnt that dangerous, as far as i know no human has ever died from it.

i would disagree, clen can certainly be dangerous. dramatic increases in bp can result in strokes, enlargement of the left ventricle can increase the likelihood of cardiovascular disease.

i dont remember if anyone has died from it, but the potential is there, if you drank say 20mls of clen, i would wonder if you would survive or not.

[longhorn814]

clen didnt agree with my body at all..gave me high bp (160/110)..elevated resting heart rate 120 beats/min..even had an abnormal EKG..never got past 100 mcg and had only been on it for 7 days..it definitely affects your cardiovascular system..did it do perm damage to me? I have no idea..i'll never use it again..im with soul stealer too on it effectiveness too..you measure clen in such small microgram doses..it would be easy to accidentally take too much, especially if youre use the liquid version..my ex accidentally took about 600-800 mcg once..didnt know how to measure..i thought she was gonna die...theres an article in the new MD mag on clen poisioning..a guy took 100mcg, yes only 100mcg..and had to be admitted to hospital b/c of anxiety, shortness of breath and heart palpitations..his heart rate was a whopping 254 beats/min and an EKG indicated supraventrical tachycardia..it took 3 different drugs to stablize his heart rhythm!!

[Amorphic]

clen didnt agree with my body at all..gave me high bp (160/110)..elevated resting heart rate 120 beats/min..even had an abnormal EKG..never got past 100 mcg and had only been on it for 7 days..it definitely affects your cardiovascular system..did it do perm damage to me? I have no idea..i'll never use it again..im with soul stealer too on it effectiveness too..you measure clen in such small microgram doses..it would be easy to accidentally take too much, especially if youre use the liquid version..my ex accidentally took about 600-800 mcg once..didnt know how to measure..i thought she was gonna die...theres an article in the new MD mag on clen poisioning..a guy took 100mcg, yes only 100mcg..and had to be admitted to hospital b/c of anxiety, shortness of breath and heart palpitations..his heart rate was a whopping 254 beats/min and an EKG indicated supraventrical tachycardia..it took 3 different drugs to stablize his heart rhythm!!

holy crap

[Schmidty]

i would disagree, clen can certainly be dangerous. dramatic increases in bp can result in strokes, enlargement of the left ventricle can increase the likelihood of cardiovascular disease.

i dont remember if anyone has died from it, but the potential is there, if you drank say 20mls of clen, i would wonder if you would survive or not.

I just orederd 60ml at200mcg/ml. So ill give it a shot LOL. No im not really gona try that. But clen sits with me wuite well, iv gonwe up2 22omcg a few times n still felt100%fine. Not sayn everybody should do,try, or like that, but i did.

[magic32]

Wow, that's a mouthful.

You dont take clen to reduce body fat....
YOU'RE KIDDING RIGHT?
HAVE YOU READ THE PROFILE, OR ANY CLEN STUDIES (ANIMAL OR HUMAN)?

IT SERVES TO INCREASE BODY TEMPERATURE BY INCREASING HEAT PRODUCTION IN THE MITOCHONDRIA, WHICH ACCELERATES BASAL METABOLIC RATE, AND DECREASES YOUR APPETITE. THIS PARTLY EXPLAINS HOW BETA-2 AGONISTS DIRECTLY STIMULATE FAT CELLS AND INCREASES LYPOLYSIS (FAT-LOSS).

ALSO, CLEN IS A VERY EFFECTIVE REPARTITIONING AGENT, AND THIS IS WHAT IT’S MOST OFTEN USED FOR IN ATHLETIC CIRCLES. IT WILL INCREASE YOUR RATIO OF FAT FREE MASS (FFM) TO FAT MASS, BY DECREASING FAT AND POSSIBLY INCREASING FFM.

-PARAPHRASED PROFILE INFO

you guys have it all wrong... clen is about as effective at reducing bodyfat as Ephedra.... maybe even less so....
CLEN IS SIGNIFICANTLY STRONGER, APPROX. 3x.

the idea behind clen is retention of lean mass...so you can diet harder...
THIS IS A GOOD IDEA, BUT CERTAINLY NOT THE SOLE OR EVEN PRIMARY ONE. A BETTER IDEA HERE WOULD BE AAS ANABOLISM, NOT CLEN'S.

As for its danger rating...this varies with the individual, and should be evaluated as such.

[New2Anabolic]

Clen is a double edged sword, but you can dull one edge if you dose it properly.

With improper use and dosage, you stand an increased risk of putting scar tissue in your heart valves (or something linear to that, I can't fully recall)

It's not 100% safe. No.
No AS is. That's why educational threads are abundant, and research is always needed!

[Maldorf]

I would never use the liquid variety, but only use tablets from a well known manufacturer. Liquids are too risky in that they might be dosed wrong, or you could slip up and give yourself the wrong dose. Many can routinely use 160mcg/day for two weeks cycles and have no long term adverse effects. Dose is different for everyone though. It will cause side effects such as elevated BP and heart rate, so its nothing to be taken lightly. Def not something to use longterm, more than 2 weeks at a time. It loses effectiveness after that long anyhow.

[Merc..]

[Abstracts contents page] [Muscle Contraction abstracts]
Puerto de la Cruz, Tenerife (2003) J Physiol 548P, O92
Oral Communications
Apoptotic and necrotic myocyte death in the heart and soleus muscle of the rat in vivo: evidence of secondary necrosis
J.G. Burniston*, L.-B. Tan†, W.A. Clark‡, N.T. Cable* and D.F. Goldspink*

*Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK, †Department of Molecular and Vascular Medicine, University of Leeds, Leeds, UK and ‡Michael Reese Hospital and Medical Centre, Chicago, IL, USA
Search Medline for articles by:
Burniston, JG
Clark, WA
Cable, NT
Goldspink, DF


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have previously shown that the administration of the β2-adrenergic receptor agonist, clenbuterol , induces both apoptotic (Burniston et al. 2002b) and necrotic (Burniston et al. 2002a) cell death in the heart and soleus muscle of the rat. Here we demonstrate that these two death pathways occur sequentially with a substantial amount of co-localisation.

Male Wistar rats (Rattus norvegicus) (287 ± 20 g) were administered (S.C.) 5 mg kg-1 of clenbuterol (experimental groups) or the saline vehicle only (controls). Before being humanely killed at specific time points (2-24 h), hearts and soleus muscles were rapidly excised, snap frozen and serial cryosections (5 µm) cut. Apoptosis was detected using an anti-caspase 3 antibody (Ab; R&D systems). For the detection of necrotic myocytes, all animals received an injection (I.P.) of an anti-myosin Ab 1 h prior to the clenbuterol challenge. This Ab is too large to be admitted through the membrane of viable myocytes, but can enter and bind to the sarcomeric myosin of necrotic myocytes in vivo. Primary Ab binding was then amplified using secondary immunoperoxidase techniques and visualised with Nova Red (Vector Laboratories). Cell death was quantified in the subendocardial region of the heart and mid-belly of each soleus using image analysis. Results are expressed as percentage area, or percentage number of damaged fibres for the heart and soleus, respectively.

No cell death was found in the hearts or solei of animals receiving only the saline vehicle (zero time point). In contrast, administration of clenbuterol induced both apoptotic and necrotic cell death in both striated muscles (Fig. 1). Apoptosis was first observed after 2 h, and necrotic myocyte death at 4 h following clenbuterol administration. The clearance rate of apoptotic cell death also occurred earlier than that of necrosis with no apoptosis evident in either tissue after 24 h.

The sequential nature of the myocyte apoptosis and necrosis suggests that some of the necrotic cells may have been apoptotic cells which have undergone secondary necrosis. This was confirmed by double immunofluorescence labelling, which showed co-localisation of apoptotic and necrotic cells in both the cardiac and soleus muscles.


This work was supported by the British Heart Foundation



Burniston JG et al. (2002a). J Appl Physiol 93, 1824-1832.

Burniston JG et al. (2002b). J Physiol 543.P, 39P.


http://www.physoc.org/publications/p...siol%20548PO92


Merc.

[magic32]

Interesting.

I would never use the liquid variety, but only use tablets from a well known manufacturer.
I DEFINITELY AGREE HERE, THE ONLY TIME I USED A LIQUID L-TAURINE WAS A CONSTANT COMPANION AS CRAMPING WAS RAMPANT. I SWITCHED BACK TO TABS, AND NO PROBLEMS.

Def not something to use longterm, more than 2 weeks at a time. It loses effectiveness after that long anyhow.
NOT FOR ME, BOTH CLEN AND EPH CONTINUE TO WORK THROUGHOUT CYCLES AS WELL AS FOR CONTINUED USE OF THE LATTER. I'LL ADD BENADRYL FROM TIME TO TIME, AND NOTICE A SLIGHTLY BETTER RESULT, BUT THEY ARE ALWAYS EFFECTIVE FOR ME.

[magic32]

Sup Merc?

At 5 mg kg-1 of clenbuterol (experimental groups) , why wouldn't cell death occur? That's not only a grossly obtuse dosage for any human, but when the tiny body/heart of a rat is considered...cellular tissue death is the only logical conclusion.

[Merc..]

Sup Merc?

At 5 mg kg-1 of clenbuterol (experimental groups) , why wouldn't cell death occur? That's not only a grossly obtuse dosage for any human, but when the tiny body/heart of a rat is considered...cellular tissue death is the only logical conclusion.

Yea it is a very large dose.. I was going to state that .. My cpu froze up on me ..

[magic32]

Yea it is a very large dose.. I was going to state that .. My cpu froze up on me ..

EXORBITANT!!!

[Maldorf]

Sup Merc?

At 5 mg kg-1 of clenbuterol (experimental groups) , why wouldn't cell death occur? That's not only a grossly obtuse dosage for any human, but when the tiny body/heart of a rat is considered...cellular tissue death is the only logical conclusion.

Exactly! Thats insane. Remeber everyone that 1mg=1000 mcg. So if you weighed 100 kg you would be taking 500 mg/day. Thats equal to 500,000 mcg!!!! Highest dose ive known personally is just 200mcg/day. So that experimental dose is 2500 x as large! Hell,take anything at a dose that high and it will kill you!

[perfectbeast2001]

all the studies i have seen use huge doses in rats. It is up for debate wether humans would be effected at regular dosages. I have used clen many times and never had a problem. I do not use it much now as i am a big believer in using less drugs at lowest doses. I can control BF by diet and cardio alone so thats what i do.

[hugovsilva]

Exactly! Thats insane. Remeber everyone that 1mg=1000 mcg. So if you weighed 100 kg you would be taking 500 mg/day. Thats equal to 500,000 mcg!!!! Highest dose ive known personally is just 200mcg/day. So that experimental dose is 2500 x as large! Hell,take anything at a dose that high and it will kill you!

Exactly! All the studies I have read on this issue use absurd dosages on rats. I never came across a study running normal 100 to 200mcg in humans. On the other hand I have ran clen at 100-120mcg for as long as 12 weeks without any serious problem, even done a EKG shortly after a cycle and nothing abnormal came up.

[mr newbreed]

so for me just finished a 14 week cycle and 3 days into pct when is the correct time to run clen and does anything need to be run with it ?
also at what dose and for how long,im now 16 stone on the mark,ive put a total of 17 pounds on with my last cycle

[magic32]

so for me just finished a 14 week cycle and 3 days into pct when is the correct time to run clen and does anything need to be run with it ?
also at what dose and for how long,im now 16 stone on the mark,ive put a total of 17 pounds on with my last cycle

Contrary to popular belief, ANYTIME is the correct time to run Clen. The number of weeks depends on your goals, but around six is average. Dosage is often contingent upon tolerance which can be especially problematic when using liquids (I have NO complications with tabs), but optimal doses are usually attained in the area of 120mcgs. ED. Ancillaries typically include L-Taurine which appears to govern the body's fluid distribution, though some use electrolytes w/varying success.

[mr newbreed]

Contrary to popular belief, ANYTIME is the correct time to run Clen. The number of weeks depends on your goals, but around six is average. Dosage is often contingent upon tolerance which can be especially problematic when using liquids (I have NO complications with tabs), but optimal doses are usually attained in the area of 120mcgs. ED. Ancillaries typically include L-Taurine which appears to govern the body's fluid distribution, though some use electrolytes w/varying success.

so im ok to be running this at the end of my pct or even durring my pct,will it strip me of any muscle like t3 can-that is why i asked if a test product is ran with it..ive got t3 here and will be using them on next cycle

[HURRICANE3500]

heart disease is the leading cause of death in the usa today .. more then all cancers combine .. anything that phawks with your heart is bad period!

[magic32]

so im ok to be running this at the end of my pct or even durring my pct,

ANYTIME!

will it strip me of any muscle like t3 can-
NO!

that is why i asked if a test product is ran with it..ive got t3 here and will be using them on next cycle

T3 is indiscriminate, and thus best used on cycle.

T3 and clen - best dosing method?

[taiboxa]

you cant use lab studies like that... its just not right.
i mean hell, they made aspartame look bad... omg its killing the mice!!
well YEAH ur feeding them their body weight in aspartame.

im sure if i ate 300lbs of aspartame ED i would have issues too.

[magic32]

you cant use lab studies like that... its just not right.
i mean hell, they made aspartame look bad... omg its killing the mice!!
well YEAH ur feeding them their body weight in aspartame.

im sure if i ate 300lbs of aspartame ED i would have issues too.

[The Deuce]

clen didnt agree with my body at all..gave me high bp (160/110)..elevated resting heart rate 120 beats/min..even had an abnormal EKG..never got past 100 mcg and had only been on it for 7 days..it definitely affects your cardiovascular system..did it do perm damage to me? I have no idea..i'll never use it again..im with soul stealer too on it effectiveness too..you measure clen in such small microgram doses..it would be easy to accidentally take too much, especially if youre use the liquid version..my ex accidentally took about 600-800 mcg once..didnt know how to measure..i thought she was gonna die...theres an article in the new MD mag on clen poisioning..a guy took 100mcg, yes only 100mcg..and had to be admitted to hospital b/c of anxiety, shortness of breath and heart palpitations..his heart rate was a whopping 254 beats/min and an EKG indicated supraventrical tachycardia..it took 3 different drugs to stablize his heart rhythm!!

WOW !!! SEE I STICK BY MY GUNS.. I WILL NEVER EVER EVER TRY CLEN . I SUFFER FROM ANXIETY SOMETIMES AND THE ATTACKS ARE SOMETIMES SEVERE... I CANT STAND THE FEELING OF A RACING PALPITATING HEART.. I SWEAR I AM HAVING A HEART ATTACK WHEN I AM IN THE MIDST OF A PANIC ATTACK AND I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE THAT CLEN WOULD INSTANTLY INDUCE A PANIC ATTACK... SO NOPE NEVER FOR ME...

I WILL JUST STICK TO MY TEST !!! :7UP:

[Merc..]

Heres one showing lower doses..


clenbuterol and apoptosis


J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links


{beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1). In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.
__________________

[Merc..]

Also

Dose-dependent separation of the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of the beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist clenbuterol in rat striated muscles.

Burniston JG, Clark WA, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sport & Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Webster Street, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK.

Muscle growth in response to large doses (milligrams per kilogram) of beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonists has been reported consistently. However, such doses may also induce myocyte death in the heart and skeletal muscles and hence may not be safe doses for humans. We report the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of different doses of clenbuterol. Rats were infused with clenbuterol (range, 1 mug to 1 mg.kg(-1)) for 14 days. Muscle protein content, myofiber cross-sectional area, and myocyte death were then investigated. Infusions of >/=10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) of clenbuterol significantly (P < 0.05) increased the protein content of the heart (12%-15%), soleus (12%), plantaris (18%-29%), and tibialis anterior (11%-22%) muscles, with concomitant myofiber hypertrophy. Larger doses (100 mug or 1 mg) induced significant (P < 0.05) myocyte death in the soleus (peak 0.2 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), diaphragm (peak 0.15 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), and plantaris (peak 0.3 +/- 0.05% necrosis), and significantly increased the area fraction of collagen in the myocardium. These data show that the low dose of 10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) can be used in rats to investigate the anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death. Muscle Nerve, 2006.



So in this one it shows heart cell death at 10mcg per Kg..

Merc.

[magic32]

So in this one it shows heart cell death at 10mcg per Kg..
Merc.

It's a good thing heart cells multiply, else I'd be a goner...

...I'm on 120mcgs ED right now!
----------------
Seriously though, the studies are good ones but premature cellular death (CD) isn't that much different from regular CD. Unless of course the rate is greatly accelerated to the point that multiplication can't keep up, as this would cause tissue death, organ dysfunction, and eventual organ failure. So the quintessential question becomes, "Do any studies indicate Clenbuterol provoked tissue death, or consequent organ failure?"

As a rule I'm not a betting man, but odds are they don't, primarily because Clen is a legitimate drug and not a poisonous chemical, unlike say a certain phenol that shall remain nameless.

[Schwarz]

Wow well I see this threw up some interesting comments and analysis. Thanks to all who chimmed in esp the vets/mods.

Any other personal experiences would be interesting to hear....


Cheers all
S

[perfectbeast2001]

Also

Dose-dependent separation of the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of the beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist clenbuterol in rat striated muscles.

Burniston JG, Clark WA, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sport & Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Webster Street, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK.

Muscle growth in response to large doses (milligrams per kilogram) of beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonists has been reported consistently. However, such doses may also induce myocyte death in the heart and skeletal muscles and hence may not be safe doses for humans. We report the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of different doses of clenbuterol. Rats were infused with clenbuterol (range, 1 mug to 1 mg.kg(-1)) for 14 days. Muscle protein content, myofiber cross-sectional area, and myocyte death were then investigated. Infusions of >/=10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) of clenbuterol significantly (P < 0.05) increased the protein content of the heart (12%-15%), soleus (12%), plantaris (18%-29%), and tibialis anterior (11%-22%) muscles, with concomitant myofiber hypertrophy. Larger doses (100 mug or 1 mg) induced significant (P < 0.05) myocyte death in the soleus (peak 0.2 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), diaphragm (peak 0.15 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), and plantaris (peak 0.3 +/- 0.05% necrosis), and significantly increased the area fraction of collagen in the myocardium. These data show that the low dose of 10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) can be used in rats to investigate the anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death. Muscle Nerve, 2006.



So in this one it shows heart cell death at 10mcg per Kg..

Merc.

so if you were thinking about running 1000mcg of clen a day then dont!

[hugovsilva]

Also

Dose-dependent separation of the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of the beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist clenbuterol in rat striated muscles.

Burniston JG, Clark WA, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sport & Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Webster Street, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK.

Muscle growth in response to large doses (milligrams per kilogram) of beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonists has been reported consistently. However, such doses may also induce myocyte death in the heart and skeletal muscles and hence may not be safe doses for humans. We report the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of different doses of clenbuterol. Rats were infused with clenbuterol (range, 1 mug to 1 mg.kg(-1)) for 14 days. Muscle protein content, myofiber cross-sectional area, and myocyte death were then investigated. Infusions of >/=10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) of clenbuterol significantly (P < 0.05) increased the protein content of the heart (12%-15%), soleus (12%), plantaris (18%-29%), and tibialis anterior (11%-22%) muscles, with concomitant myofiber hypertrophy. Larger doses (100 mug or 1 mg) induced significant (P < 0.05) myocyte death in the soleus (peak 0.2 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), diaphragm (peak 0.15 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), and plantaris (peak 0.3 +/- 0.05% necrosis), and significantly increased the area fraction of collagen in the myocardium. These data show that the low dose of 10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) can be used in rats to investigate the anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death. Muscle Nerve, 2006.



So in this one it shows heart cell death at 10mcg per Kg..

Merc.

(100 mug or 1 mg) I did not know this unit (mug) but from this it seem like 1/100 of a mg or 10mcg.

So if in rats it was needed more than 10 mug/kg to see myocyte death, this this still means a dosage of 100mcg/kg.

This "means" that a standard bodybuilder of 90kg would have to take around 9000mcg (9 mg) to see myocyte death. This of course is just speculation since the studies were conducted in mice.

[Merc..]

(100 mug or 1 mg) I did not know this unit (mug) but from this it seem like 1/100 of a mg or 10mcg.

So if in rats it was needed more than 10 mug/kg to see myocyte death, this this still means a dosage of 100mcg/kg.

This "means" that a standard bodybuilder of 90kg would have to take around 900mcg to see myocyte death. This of course is just speculation since the studies were conducted in mice.

........

[solidA]

not worth it
its not even dramatic results

[hugovsilva]

........

I corrected my post because the lowest dosage to cause myocyte death was not 900 mcg but 9000 mcg or 9 mg.

[Merc..]

I made a mistake on my math also ..

[Merc..]

so if you were thinking about running 1000mcg of clen a day then dont!

There ya go PB .... indeed , indeed ...



Merc.