MX3 I appologise I just found ther PM you sent me and I understand your point about being safe rather than sorry with atleast a hormone replacement dose of test on cycles. It's probly good advise to give in general I just think everyone should try different things so we all learn collectively more about various methods of using gear. The friends I know who have done cycles with no test are fine just like me. However your trying to save guys from potential sides due to no test in their cycle and i respect that to. Thanks for debating this with me it's been interesting.