Hcg Confused

[Taurus]

am on a long 18 wk cycle. i know that hcg is beneficial on long cycles but i have read up on differing views on how to take it.

i was under the impression from back in the day that i take it in the middle of my cycle @ 500iu's for 10 days consecutively.

now im reading to take it for the last 4 weeks of the cycle @500-1000iu's once a week.

any help?

[ggoyal]

Also if someone could answer this. Do I need to take HCG for my first cycle(1-12 test e 400-500mg/week, 104dbol, 20mg ED) or during PCT? I am gyno prone so I assume I will be taking letro while on cycle tapering it off PCT

Stats-21yrs, 5'9,190lbs, 12-14%BF

[PT]

i take 200-250ius 3 days a week then i shoot it way up for pct

[BG]

^^200 iu's 2x ew is also effecient enough.

[PT]

yea bro you want to take the lowest dose possible because more is definatly not better when using hcg

[Taurus]

^^200 iu's 2x ew is also effecient enough.

ur talkin throught the whole cycle or in the last 4 weeks?

[BG]

yea bro you want to take the lowest dose possible because more is definatly not better when using hcg

Absolutely.

[BG]

ur talkin throught the whole cycle or in the last 4 weeks?

During. I would stop a few weeks before pct.

[Taurus]

so many schools of thought... so different from what i read on this board!

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=292564

[PT]

i dont know what your talking about bro. everyone does there own thing but he is basically saying the same thing. just do whatever you want

[BG]

I will elaborate later, hcg can keep you shut down , so many DOCTORS recommend stoping it before pct, then if you do decide to use it in pct you will need to run nolva with it. Im going to train but Ill find the info tonite.

[Merc..]

Yea, HCG is suppressive ... HCG testicular desensitization.. HCG blocks the conversion of 17 hydroxy progesterone to testosterone ( Anthony Roberts explains this in detail in his PCT article) ..

Using nolva with HCG will block it's suppressive nature .. Here is one study that shows it does..

Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.Smals AG, Pieters GF, Drayer JI, Boers GH, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.

Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.

PMID: 7419679 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


That is a good study .. Also you can look up desensitize and leydig on pubmed and you will see that desensitization is not caused by PKC , and therefore is likly to be caused by hcg's effects on 17 - OHP .... And those desensitizing effects from HCG are blocked by using nolva with it ...



Merc.

[Taurus]

i dont know what your talking about bro. everyone does there own thing but he is basically saying the same thing. just do whatever you want

how is he saying the same thing. he says its best used 3-4 weeks from pct at at least 1000iu's a week. ur saying use it throughout cycle at only 400-500 iu's? how is that the same thing.

i understand ur reasoning, and im not saying ur wrong, but ur dosages and timings are alot different to the thread i posted!

[BG]

Thanks Merc, there was a great discussion about this at M+M but I couldnt find it.

[PT]

if you were better at comprehending things you would see that he says that you should use it the last 4 weeks for BEST results. it dosnt say not to run it. it says to use it the last 4 weeks for best results which is because your shut down hard and your nearing the end of your cycle. i told you everyone is different and does there own thing. just because someone runs 2000mgs of test a week to hav great results dosnt mean another person cant run 500mgs a week and have the same results. think young brother, think

[hugovsilva]

Personally I like to run it from half cycle forward at 250-500iu 2 x a week and then fillow the pct proposed by Anthony Roberts as I have tried that before and felt really good after my cycle wich included tren ace for 12 weeks.

[BG]

If I were to run hcg, it would be from the start of the cycle, stop 2 weeks before end, then wait the amount of time for the longest ester you used, then WITH nolva run it in your pct. I would also run higher amount during pct than through out the cycle. Just my 2-cents.

[Taurus]

so basically... run it at 500-1000 ius a week, about 4 weeks from end of cycle, then bump up the dose during pct... and the whole time whilst on hcg, incorporate nolva.

how much should i use during pct?

[longhorn814]

I prefer to run 500 IUs once a week throughout the whole cycle..just not the last 4 weeks and take your last shot of HCG 10 days before you plan on starting PCT..I dont use it during PCT..only during cycle

[hunter7]

what if you running deca and using hcg mid cycle should you still use nolva?

[Merc..]

what if you running deca and using hcg mid cycle should you still use nolva?

Nolva increses PgR in breast tissue and gives more for the decas metabolites to bind too .. Thus POSSIBLY increasing your chances of getting gyno ... So using 19 nors and nolva can be problematic ...




Merc.

[BG]

so basically... run it at 500-1000 ius a week, about 4 weeks from end of cycle, then bump up the dose during pct... and the whole time whilst on hcg, incorporate nolva.

how much should i use during pct?

200iu's 2x ew is plenty through out and for pct 500 to 600ius 2x ew would be fine. HCG I feel is one of the most over used compounds. I didn't use it through out cycles until I went on hrt, once on hrt and I add a 19 nor I shut down right away, that's when I add it. You will know if you need it through out, once you start to shut down you can feel it, I actually get desensitization, but the shut down feeling (loss of sex drive and small ejaculation) can also be caused by an abundance of estrogen. Sometimes I get nut aches, that shit hurts.

[Merc..]

but the shut down feeling (loss of sex drive and small ejaculation) can also be caused by an abundance of estrogen. Sometimes I get nut aches, that shit hurts.

Yep ... Estrogen is suppressive ........


Merc.