1st Cycle-Attempting not to ask a dumb question

**VIPLV** · 03-23-2008, 04:24 AM

Alright guys. I need a little help. I've been reading this board for a few years now and have taken the advice given to most newbies and pushed myself as close to my natural limits as I think I can get. I realize there's no "magic pill" and I know I can't build and cut at the same time, but I'm hoping to maintain MOST of what I have now and cut like crazy for the upcoming summer months!

My stats are: 25 years old...5'9...208 lbs...about 15% BF...working out on and off for about 10 years and pushing it hard for about 1.5 years.

My goals: My goals are more "Men's Health" body and not "Muscle Mag" body, at least for now due to upcoming summer. I'm looking to be very cut. I can be as strict as I need to be on diet and workout (which I'll save those questions for the diet forum). I'm thinking I would like to see myself about 200 lbs at 8% BF

Here is what I have access to through source:
Test Enanthate
Tren
Eq
Cytomel (T3)
Clen
(PCT)
I'm also pretty sure I've found a website that is legit due to not being on any scammers list, but the prices are kinda high, but if you think I need to get something else I'll be more than happy to order from them!

Here's the Cycle I was thinking about. Please feel free to critique

Test E-500 mg/week for 12 weeks

Clen-2 weeks on 2 weeks off throughout Test cycle
(60/80/100/100/100/100/100/100/100/100/100/100/80/60)

Cytomel (T3)
Week 3-50 mcg
Week 4-75 mcg
Week 5-100 mcg
Week 6-75 mcg
Week 7-50 mcg
Week 8-25 mcg

Benadryl week 3

PCT

I know this will all come down to DIET, but if my diet is in check should this be a good cycle to accomplish my goals? Should I add some eq at about 400 mg a week? Any help or advice would be appreciated! Thank you

**flabbywussy** · 03-23-2008, 04:29 AM

enanthate is not a great idea for cutting, but if thats all you have as far as test goes then i would definately take a small dose of letro(femara) or another type of anti-e

**VIPLV** · 03-23-2008, 01:19 PM

Anybody Else??? I'm open to all ideas and comments!

**AaronJM1984** · 03-23-2008, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by VIPLV

Alright guys. I need a little help. I've been reading this board for a few years now and have taken the advice given to most newbies and pushed myself as close to my natural limits as I think I can get. I realize there's no "magic pill" and I know I can't build and cut at the same time, but I'm hoping to maintain MOST of what I have now and cut like crazy for the upcoming summer months!

My stats are: 25 years old...5'9...208 lbs...about 15% BF...working out on and off for about 10 years and pushing it hard for about 1.5 years.

My goals: My goals are more "Men's Health" body and not "Muscle Mag" body, at least for now due to upcoming summer. I'm looking to be very cut. I can be as strict as I need to be on diet and workout (which I'll save those questions for the diet forum). I'm thinking I would like to see myself about 200 lbs at 8% BF

Here is what I have access to through source:
Test Enanthate
Tren
Eq
Cytomel (T3)
Clen
(PCT)
I'm also pretty sure I've found a website that is legit due to not being on any scammers list, but the prices are kinda high, but if you think I need to get something else I'll be more than happy to order from them!

Here's the Cycle I was thinking about. Please feel free to critique

Test E-500 mg/week for 12 weeks

Clen-2 weeks on 2 weeks off throughout Test cycle
(60/80/100/100/100/100/100/100/100/100/100/100/80/60)

Cytomel (T3)
Week 3-50 mcg
Week 4-75 mcg
Week 5-100 mcg
Week 6-75 mcg
Week 7-50 mcg
Week 8-25 mcg

Benadryl week 3

PCT

I know this will all come down to DIET, but if my diet is in check should this be a good cycle to accomplish my goals? Should I add some eq at about 400 mg a week? Any help or advice would be appreciated! Thank you

Week 1-12 Test E @500mg (split into 2 doses per week)
Week 1-10 Tren (not sure what dose would be appropriate)

I wouldn't use EQ for a cutting cycle, EQ has similiar effects as Deca (which you probably know is more aimed towards bulking), obviously you can use most any steroid for either cutting or bulking but I'd leave the EQ out of this one and save it for the winter bulk.

Your proposed T3 and Clen cycle looks good, some would even suggest starting your Clen when you start your PCT, up to you.

Have you thought about frontloading your Test E?

**Njord** · 03-23-2008, 01:49 PM

Test E for 12 weeks is a good first cycle. Do NOT use tren for a first cycle.

You mention clen on and off for two weeks and then mention benadryl. You only need to one or the other.

What is your planned pct?

**VIPLV** · 03-23-2008, 04:29 PM

I have not started planning an indepth PCT due to still being unsure of what you guys suggest for the cycle. But I'm assuming it's gonna be the standard clomid PCT with some Nolva on hand just incase of gyno symptoms. So my question for you now is....will this cycle along with my diet in check get me the results I'm looking for? Or, is there something better I could do?

**inky-e** · 03-23-2008, 06:13 PM

as far as going from 208 to 200,definately do-able,bf however is hard to predict.but anythings possible with the right effort!good luck.

**VIPLV** · 03-23-2008, 06:38 PM

Is there anything that would be better than Enanthate for me to take to maintain most mass yet lose BF? Or is this the best option?

**Phate** · 03-23-2008, 06:44 PM

as far as test goes, the shorter the ester the less water retention, test suspension has no ester but you have to shoot it 1-2 times a day, personally i'd go with test prop if you could, you'd shoot it ed or eod and wouldn't bloat up as much as with enth

**VIPLV** · 03-23-2008, 06:52 PM

If I was dieting correctly with very little to no sodium and keeping my diet super clean would I still get the same water retention? I'll do what I need to, but with this being my first cycle I would prefer to stay away from the ED or EOD injections. Given my goals of trying to maintain as much as possible while cutting; is my starting point at the right time for the clen /T3 or should I start that part of my cycle around week 4? Thus, to finish the T3 around my last week of the test with one final round of Clen during my PCT? Sorry for all the questions...I'm just wanting to make sure I get this as close to perfect as I can! Thanks

**Phate** · 03-23-2008, 07:57 PM

you'll probably hear some people that disagree with this and you should listen to both sides because both are going to be right

IMO you dont need to run clen /t3 if your using your cycle to cut or clean bulk, if you just do a eat everything in sight bulker then the clen/t3 would be a good pct addition to help you cut, but if you eat clean while on your cycle then you'll have great LBM gains

as far as the bloating, some people respond differently, i know some people that take high doses of enth and get very little water retention, and i also know some that run medium doses and have huge bloating issues to deal with

go ahead and run the enth since that's what you have access to and run an AI like Arimidex at .25mg/ed to help keep the bloat down

**VIPLV** · 03-23-2008, 08:37 PM

Thanks for the advice phate! I have researched and researched and when it comes to T3, it just seems there's no info on it that is completely agreed upon by EVERYBODY. Some say ONLY take it with AAS, and some say it's fine on it's own or like you say....in PCT! I guess I'm just gonna have to "Rock, Paper, Scissors with this one! So here's another question and I know this should be in the diet forum which I'll post later for additional info, but in maintaining mass and losing BF...what should my caloric intake be on a daily basis? Thanks in advance!

**VIPLV** · 03-24-2008, 10:04 AM

Anyone???

**Phate** · 03-24-2008, 09:41 PM

go to the diet forum and read the unofficial how to bulk thread, it has a calorie formula in there thats pretty accurate and alot of good info how clean bulking

**breakbones** · 03-24-2008, 09:44 PM

All you need is Test E, no need to do additional compounds. Learn from a first good cycle how you're body will react....

**VIPLV** · 03-24-2008, 10:51 PM

I'm just worried that I might bulk up TOO MUCH! I have really good genetics in terms of easily able to put on mass, but thing is....I don't wanta get HUGE. Again, I'm looking for Men's Health...Not MUSCLE MAG! Think...Brad Pitt in "Troy" or LL Cool J (both from the neck down of course...LOL, there's some things even GEAR can't do!!!!! HAHAHAHA), but yeah, something like those guys. I'm not trying to go Ronnie Coleman here! So would I be okay with the T3/Clen towards the end of my cycle? Thanks guys

**powerclean or gohome** · 03-24-2008, 10:55 PM

think you might have the wrong conception about aas, one cycle is not going to magically make you the hulk, much more time and work would have to go in to achieving that than is available in say a 12wk cycle

read up, you might want to try clen , a clean diet,some extra protein and heavy lifting from what i read

**VIPLV** · 03-24-2008, 11:10 PM

I don't think you read what I said earlier! 1st of all, I don't have a misconception of what aas will do! I've been training my ass of for quite a while now. I've seen what aas can do, and I know with the proper diet and training that single bulk cycle of Test E only can put a solid 25 lbs of mass on a first time user! I believe I've reached my natural peak, but everytime I try to cut with simple diet I lose mass. I don't want to lose mass so I'm trying to gain a little more than my natural peak, so that when I cut, I can be a cut version of what I am now. I'm looking for an 6-8% BF at 200-205 lbs at 5'9" tall. I just want somebody to tell me if with the proper diet and training if this cycle can help me achieve those goals!

**powerclean or gohome** · 03-24-2008, 11:19 PM

sorry,didnt mean to offend your plans

those goals seem good, going to have to work hard for sure

if thats your goal,id try one cycle, maybe a test only cycle with some good clean dieting

**VIPLV** · 03-24-2008, 11:30 PM

Test only cycle huh? It's crazy that you said that because THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SAID I WAS GOING TO DO 10 POST EARLIER IN THIS TREAD!!!!! ************************************************** ************************************************* That was a series of very bad words if you didn't catch it! Okay now that I got that out of my system...Anyway, sorry bro. The girlfriend has been away for about 2 weeks and well....you know. I little frustrated if you know what I mean! hahaha. Anyway, thanks for the help bro!

**powerclean or gohome** · 03-24-2008, 11:39 PM

well then just consider my post as agreeing with your post before

and i know how that is :/

**BuffBuffalo** · 03-25-2008, 07:05 AM

Even though his main goal is cutting, I don't think prop is a good idea for a first timer. I think test E or C would be a better call to avoid the frequent injects.

**Samson4** · 03-25-2008, 08:23 AM

1-10 test e 500mg
11-12 test prop 150 eod
pct

If you can get some ketotifen, you can run the clen for 5-6 weeks then 1 week break(still taking Ketotifen) and then repeat. Benadryl works also but 1 week isn't gonna cut it. Take it the full length of the cycle.

**SECdominance** · 03-25-2008, 08:24 AM

yeah. go with Test E for 12 weeks, Clen , cardio, and solid pct

**Phate** · 03-25-2008, 05:16 PM

if you have keto then running 3-4mg/day every third week is all you need, though when i ran an 8 week clen cycle i ran 2mg/ed of the cycle and benedryl 50mg/day every third week, but i was also running clen at 200mcg/day

**VIPLV** · 03-26-2008, 10:29 AM

Why does so many people not recommend Cytomel (T3). It seems to me to be VERY effective, but it seems so many people on here don't really recommend it! I know it can really mess you up if you don't cycle it right, but c'mon guys...It's not like I'm asking about DNP here! If T3 had feelings I think you guys would be pissing it off! hahahaha

**Lemonada8** · 03-26-2008, 11:30 AM

for the water retention u can always go to a gnc type of store and get a diuretic

**Phate** · 03-26-2008, 04:48 PM

for water retention i'd run arimidex at .25mg/day depending on the cycle, and T3 is very effective, but if you don't run it right or you run it without AAS then it'll cause you to lose muscle

**VIPLV** · 03-27-2008, 02:38 AM

Thanks phate. By the way can you send me a copy of that spreadsheet you were talking about in a previous thread that helps you track your body temperature while on clen ?