High liver values, Nolvadex ?

[JasonR]

I just got my PCT bloodwork data and it shows this:

ALT 57
AST 39.

The AST is fine (considering 2 workouts a day, both are ass kicking )

but the ALT which is more liver specific enzyme is off the chart high, highest value being 47 and I have 57... its not something that requires further testing\checking or something but i would still like to be in the range...

I took my last pill of DBOL approx 2 months ago(total 12 weeks on orals, 6 on var 6 on dbol, along side testo)
.. it was about 30mg.. BUT I have also been on TAMOX for 4-5 months now, I'm currently taking 20mg for PCT. No alcohol, have not used stimulants in a week or two, I take 200mcg T4 for hypothyridism.. Thats pretty much it.

Is it common for nolva to cause these high levels of ALT ?
Merc ? Magic ? please chime in.

[kfrost06]

First question, why are you on tamox for 4-5 months?

[JasonR]

Before the 12 weeks cycle to eliminate gyno, during the 12 week cycle for prevention and now PCT
stopping for good in 3 weeks...

[kfrost06]

Understood, figured it was something like that but I have heard of people staying on to boost their testosterone levels . There are side effects from long term use that out weigh the small benefits for bbers.

Anyways, it is definitely the tamoxiphen. Tamoxifen is a cause of fatty liver, also known as steatorrhoeic hepatosis. Tamoxifen can also cause a rapid increase in triglyceride concentration in the blood. Here's a paper on the matter...

http://www.expertopin.com/doi/abs/10...14740338.6.1.1

My advice is get off the stuff now. There is no need to be on it that long, also in the future, incorporating an AI alnog with it will minimize the increase in triglyerides and help with the "fatty liver". Good Luck!

[football2007]

Well tamox is shown to be liver toxic.

Thats why you should use fareston (toremifene)

non toxic in more ways than one..plus it helps lipids

[JasonR]

Understood, figured it was something like that but I have heard of people staying on to boost their testosterone levels . There are side effects from long term use that out weigh the small benefits for bbers.

Anyways, it is definitely the tamoxiphen. Tamoxifen is a cause of fatty liver, also known as steatorrhoeic hepatosis. Tamoxifen can also cause a rapid increase in triglyceride concentration in the blood. Here's a paper on the matter...

http://www.expertopin.com/doi/abs/10...14740338.6.1.1

My advice is get off the stuff now. There is no need to be on it that long, also in the future, incorporating an AI alnog with it will minimize the increase in triglyerides and help with the "fatty liver". Good Luck!

Thanks bro !! I'm in week 1 of PCT though so i'll stop it soon ...
actually I can get toremifene, would it be a better choice in the future ?

[football2007]

Yes. Very much so..

[magic32]

Football is correct, Nolva can raise values:

Effects on the liver: Non-malignant effects:
NOLVADEX has been associated with changes in liver enzyme levels...
...In the NSABP P-1 trial, few grade 3-4 changes in liver function (SGOT, SGPT, bilirubin, alkaline phosphatase) were observed (10 on placebo and 6 on NOLVADEX). Serum lipids were not systematically collected.
http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/SAFETY/2...olvadex_PI.pdf

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However, I'm incredulous because such a short stint is unlikely to be responsible for this amount of change. I'd be more inclined to implicate the oral only cycle than the SERM. What were the cycle dosages, and when were the values checked?

Also, how's your gyno war going?

[JasonR]

Thanks bro.
Gyno is totally gone so I won this war

Cycle was Test 250mg EW 1-12.
Var 1-6 50mg
Dbol 50mg down to 30 towards the end 6-9\10.

Finished the cycle 2 weeks ago.. now in 4th day of PCT...

I used the nolva for approx 6 months,mostly high dosage.. sometimes i was getting to 50-60mg... usually 20mg..

[magic32]

Thanks bro.
Gyno is totally gone so I won this war
..

Good to hear, your application of longer term therapy is exactly what research cites as effective. Too many people run various treatments for 3+ weeks ending in frustration. We'd never treat Test like that!

Good job!

[kfrost06]

Thanks bro.
Gyno is totally gone so I won this war

Cycle was Test 250mg EW 1-12.
Var 1-6 50mg
Dbol 50mg down to 30 towards the end 6-9\10.

Finished the cycle 2 weeks ago.. now in 4th day of PCT...

I used the nolva for approx 6 months,mostly high dosage.. sometimes i was getting to 50-60mg... usually 20mg..

You finished your cycle 2 weeks ago and your wondering why your liver values are high? I thought you said 2 months ago. It takes time for your liver to rebound, the nolvadex definitely is not helping though. Give it more time and get it done again a month after your done with PCT

[football2007]

10 weeks of orals with 6 months of nolva at high doses? There's your answer. 50-60mg of nolvadex is totally unncessarily IMO. I see no reason to bring it that high.

[JasonR]

10 weeks of orals with 6 months of nolva at high doses? There's your answer. 50-60mg of nolvadex is totally unncessarily IMO. I see no reason to bring it that high.

Actually I did see improvement in gyno reversal at 2x20mg over 1x20mg, but i agree the 50-60mg dose was mostly for placebo

Yea, thanks anyway, I'll wait a couple more months then repeat the test meanwhile ill mess around with Torem as my primary SERM.